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Southern Ontario Winter '14-'15 Discussion


harrisale

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EC SWS:

Total snowfall amounts of 10 to 15 cm are expected for regions from Sarnia to London and Brantford. From Goderich to Kitchener to Toronto snowfall amounts will be closer to 5 cm.

lolololololol...they are so terrible. I mean I'm a pretty conservative guy but this is just abject idiocy.

When is that government funding going to get transferred to EC lol? Or has it already?

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EC SWS:

 

 

Total snowfall amounts of 10 to 15 cm are expected for regions from Sarnia to London and Brantford. From Goderich to Kitchener to Toronto snowfall amounts will be closer to 5 cm.

 

lolololololol...they are so terrible. I mean I'm a pretty conservative guy but this is just abject idiocy.

 

They're taking the GEM verbatim and then forgetting that SLR's can exceed 10:1. Yep... seems pretty classic.

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This is such a fragile situation.

 

1) Northern fringe of precipitation shield has a very sharp QPF gradient. A low slightly north of its modelled trajectory could have big ramifications for us.

 

2) If the low moves less laterally and more toward the NW; again, big changes. 

 

3) Lake enhancement. Slight changes in the the low's position could result in some lake enhancement for the GTA with easterly winds.

 

The opposite is also true. 1, 2 and 3 could all be slightly south or even more lateral, resulting in futility. I'm not so worried about the dry air eating away at the precip shield as we sometimes see with clippers: totally different moisture field.

 

I haven't been paying attention to the strength of the winds at the surface. On my phone right now... what kind of wind/wind gusts are we expecting to see during the peak rates?

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This is such a fragile situation.

 

1) Northern fringe of precipitation shield has a very sharp QPF gradient. A low slightly north of its modelled trajectory could have big ramifications for us.

 

2) If the low moves less laterally and more toward the NW; again, big changes. 

 

3) Lake enhancement. Slight changes in the the low's position could result in some lake enhancement for the GTA with easterly winds.

 

The opposite is also true. 1, 2 and 3 could all be slightly south or even more lateral, resulting in futility. I'm not so worried about the dry air eating away at the precip shield as we sometimes see with clippers: totally different moisture field.

 

I haven't been paying attention to the strength of the winds at the surface. On my phone right now... what kind of wind/wind gusts are we expecting to see during the peak rates?

 

Per the 18z NAM, looks like 40-50 km/h sustained winds right along the lake Ontario shoreline. Lesser winds inland.

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btw...props to WestCoaster for sniffing out this threat fairly early. I admit, I didn't think the synoptic pattern would be conducive for a northward shift. But here we are.

 

Thanks! Although to be honest, it was simply a handful of GGEM runs between Jan 23-25 which were showing 30-40 cm dumps for the western GTA. Oddly enough, the GEM is the one model still holding back for our region now. If I've learned anything, it's that when a model shows something major far into the distance, keep an eye on it, even if it vanishes... I remember the Euro and Sandy really taught me that. Honestly though, if January were typical I probably wouldn't have given something so far out even a second look... but when you're snow-starved, anything even 240+ hours out becomes so important  :lol:

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I hope so. They should upgrade the RGEM and GGEM. I'm not sure when the last time was when they got an update.

 

Honestly the RGEM and GGEM aren't bad models. They had a big update early last year, no? The problem is that this even is so borderline that small shifts to the south make all the difference, but it's like EC is blind to any other model.

 

I'm sure there is a standard practice requirement that forecasts be based off the in-house GEM, but if there is good reason (and they would surely have good reason in this case), they are likely able to alter the forecast to favour other model consensuses.

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Honestly the RGEM and GGEM aren't bad models. They had a big update early last year, no? The problem is that this even is so borderline that small shifts to the south make all the difference, but it's like EC is blind to any other model.

 

I'm sure there is a standard practice requirement that forecasts be based off the in-house GEM, but if there is good reason (and they would surely have good reason in this case), they are likely able to alter the forecast to favour other model consensuses.

 

RGEM/GGEM are decent, but I was referring to EC which tends to have a bias using the GGEM over the other models. There are times when EC is too conservative or too optimistic. Hard to catch them in-between. 

 

They went to 4DVR/0.24 degrees back in Feb 2013. I'm pretty sure another upgrade in in the works fairly soon but not sure exactly when.

 

Really ahey? It has improved its quality a bit. The GGEM was the first model to sniff this storm out. The other model suite followed afterwards. 

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RGEM/GGEM are decent, but I was referring to EC which tends to have a bias using the GGEM over the other models. There are times when EC is too conservative or too optimistic. Hard to catch them in-between.

 

 

Really ahey? It has improved its quality a bit. The GGEM was the first model to sniff this storm out. The other model suite followed afterwards. 

 

That last sentence is such a polite way to say "They are hardly ever right"  :lol:

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18z NAM BUFKIT:

 

YYZ: 0.47" QPF (6.0-8.0" of snow based on cobb techniques).

YXU: 0.59" QPF (9.5-13.0" of snow based on cobb techniques),

 

Ratios are better in London because of better omega intersecting with the snow growth region there. I'll post the soundings in a sec.

 

Wow amazing. 15-20cm would be a repeat of that Dec 11th storm which i wouldn't mind at all. What ratios are we looking at? 15:1 sounds reasonable. 

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Wow amazing. 15-20cm would be a repeat of that Dec 11th storm which i wouldn't mind at all. What ratios are we looking at? 15:1 sounds reasonable. 

 

Yeah, it's about 15:1. Another tick to the north would help in getting those better dynamics near the sfc to help with dendrite production. Here's the sounding:

 

post-257-0-45924600-1422740253_thumb.jpg

 

Yellow line represents the DGZ, grey line is the uvvs (the more to the left the line goes, the better the lift). Not quite intersecting.

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