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Winter 2014-15 Med/Long Range Discussion Part 2


Hoosier

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Do you think we'll manage a stratosphere wave 2 via upwelling by early Jan, and wouldn't that reduce dependence on an SSW episode?

I also noticed the GWO beginning to oscillate in negative territory. Do you think that will contribute to the persistence of the SE ridge? Very non-Nino like for sure.

attachicon.gifgfsgwo_1.png

B/C the LR modelling has been doing so bad lately I am reluctant to commit to any particular solution. What we have a good handle on is the strong downwelling wave 1 that should peak by ~D5, soon to be followed by a wave 2 spike whether that is upwelling/downwelling or both. In order for the 60N/10mb U wind to go negative we will need some downwelling wave 2 help. By D10, most of the vortex is in bad condition especially the mid strat. Also important to note that the main area of PV is on our side of the pole which always helps. Beyond D10 is where the forecast gets tricky. What once was a really good look for w2 on the ec eps/GEFS via Siberian RWB has since transformed into a weaker wave 1 pattern. To finish off a very weak vortex we need E european heights to rise just one more time beyond D10 in order to attain true SSWE status.

D12 on the EC EPS

 

Re the GWO talk, I think the state of the ossc is probably reflecting the enhanced IO forcing. The main MJO wave is expected to return to the IO yet again as soon as 1/10-15. This has been an unexpected development this winter with a real lack of traditional equator forcing east of the dateline. This is one of the reasons why the pattern should have some nina component for much of Jan IMO.

Note the convergence zone ~180W which is helping kill any low freq CHI moving in that direction. Roundy plots kill most of the eastern wave by ~1/15, with the main forcing over the IO.

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Weather is weird and can change on a dime but it's looking more and more like a safe call that December will end on a quiet note. Looks like the next "threat" will be when that retrograding SW low finally ejects around the 2nd or 3rd.

 

It's going to depend on the position of the PV and when the shortwave comes out (if at all without tearing to shreds), bu if it's a threat for any location, it's more than likely from the Ohio Valley and southward...

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I feel like we need to renew our optimism.  So here's a hot link to today's 12z P-GFS.  T-minus 240 hours.

 

gfsp_mslp_pcpn_frzn_eus_40.png

 

How likely is it for that type of solution to even happen?

 

I'm not saying that can't happen and I understand it's 240hrs out, but that would be unusual... :lol:

 

What I will say is it would certanly be a shame if the pGFS is just as bad as the OP GFS it's replacing

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Hopefully we more than double our December snowfall!

 

lol

It's going to depend on the position of the PV and when the shortwave comes out (if at all without tearing to shreds), bu if it's a threat for any location, it's more than likely from the Ohio Valley and southward...

Looks like that is what the current GFS run is showing...

http://www.instantweathermaps.com/GFS-php/showmap-conussfc.php?run=2014122512&time=PER&var=ASNOWI&hour=384

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I feel like we need to renew our optimism.  So here's a hot link to today's 12z P-GFS.  T-minus 240 hours.

 

gfsp_mslp_pcpn_frzn_eus_40.png

 

The PGFS is still showing that? When I checked the other day, it was the only model showing anything close to that in that timeframe. It was taking it right up the OV.

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Both the 00z and 12z ECMWF runs for today would be a snowstorm for most or all of lower Michigan as that closed low ejects into the Ohio Valley and lifts toward the eastern Great Lakes between 200-240 hours.  Models aren't the greatest at handling closed lows like that, but I do like how the overall evolution is strongly dependent on the deepening longwave trough upstream and a closed low whose development is (relatively) high confidence.

 

If you're going to wishcast a snowstorm 220 hours away, don't do it for a storm that depends on phasing shortwaves.  Do it when all that is needed is for snow in your back yard is a large wave to get swept up within a longwave trough.  Technically the 12z would involve a period of rain in the middle of the event for much of SEMI, but we can revisit that in 200 hours.  I do like the overall potential....as long as the closed low doesn't do anything too funny.

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Both the 00z and 12z ECMWF runs for today would be a snowstorm for most or all of lower Michigan as that closed low ejects into the Ohio Valley and lifts toward the eastern Great Lakes between 200-240 hours.  Models aren't the greatest at handling closed lows like that, but I do like how the overall evolution is strongly dependent on the deepening longwave trough upstream and a closed low whose development is high confidence.

 

If you're going to wishcast a snowstorm 220 hours away, don't do it for a storm that depends on phasing shortwaves.  Do it when all that is needed is for snow in your back yard is a large wave to get swept up within a longwave trough.  Technically the 12z would involve a period of rain in the middle of the event for much of SEMI, but we can revisit that in 200 hours.  I do like the overall potential....as long as the closed low doesn't do anything too funny.

 

 

Like bury itself in Mexico?  :P

 

I'm watching this period with some interest as it appears to be the next real chance at something decent (keeping an eye on the 28th-29th but don't have much hope there).  Hopefully it works out for someone.

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Yeah, the EC and GEM ensembles seem to hint at a higher latitude cutoff, which is good.  Heck, you can even infer a hit for the subforum from the extended GFS.  The evolution is basically the same, until it takes the low right over the Appalachians.  But if the post 192-hour didn't truncate shortwave dynamics and rob the whole system of its deepening cycle, that wouldn't happen.  This isn't worth talking about again until we are at least inside 168 hours, but like I said, the unusually low dependence on small scale features and model agreement on the large scale is a good thing.  I'll admit I am jonesing for snow.

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Yeah, the EC and GEM ensembles seem to hint at a higher latitude cutoff, which is good.  Heck, you can even infer a hit for the subforum from the extended GFS.  The evolution is basically the same, until it takes the low right over the Appalachians.  But if the post 192-hour didn't truncate shortwave dynamics and rob the whole system of its deepening cycle, that wouldn't happen.  This isn't worth talking about again until we are at least inside 168 hours, but like I said, the unusually low dependence on small scale features and model agreement on the large scale is a good thing.  I'll admit I am jonesing for snow.

Whenever all of the OP models and many of their ensembles are in agreement on a decent storm in the same timeframe, its always a good sign that SOMETHING will occur SOMEWHERE in the east half of the country. Beyond that....especially with the atrocious model performance lately...its all a crap shoot. Day by Day - thats the motto for 2014-15!

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Early call for the 3-4th storm is rain IMBY. Hopefully I'm wrong

All of the 18z members are warm rainy smelly cutters. Then back to cold and dry. Nice pattern.

Irony...

 

12z euro is bah humbug.   moderate system thru OV day 8 then by day 10 most of the country is above normal  with the cold pool in Canada retreating.

 

Patience is the best xmas present this year for snow lovers....we are going to need a LOT of it.

I wouldn't worry about the cold air retreating. Why you study a day 10 euro op run is beyond me.

 

Study?   I was just mentioning what it showed.  It's relevant in the face of all the pattern change and cold forecast calls.  Just another piece of the puzzle...right or wrong.

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definitely a good setup for somebody in the ov / lakes region, nice ridge around florida to keep any storms going in a more NE direction instead of being suppressed, and decent trough in the sw and sc states :D got my eye on this one.

 

It depends on how you define a "good setup"

 

It's a classic "thread the needle" storm from what I can see...

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It depends on how you define a "good setup"

 

It's a classic "thread the needle" storm from what I can see...

 

Cold air is in place this time though....if it cuts west I would think it would be snow to rain to snow. At this long range juncture we have seen models play the snow swath well to our south, to our northwest, and right over us. At this far range and with terrible modeling lately, cant really ask for much more at THIS point.

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It depends on how you define a "good setup"

 

It's a classic "thread the needle" storm from what I can see...

looks like this storm if it happens will have a decent high pressure behind it giving it a nice cold air pool vs the november and xmas eve bomb storms that had no high pressure system to provide good cold air somebody will win pretty good with this but as usual its almost 8 days out so things will change a lot.

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