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Winter 2014-15 Med/Long Range Discussion Part 2


Hoosier

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Just was looking at the numbers NAO, AO, MJO graphs from the climate prediction centre. I'm even less confident in the weather taking a turn to more winter like scenario. I'm fearing the repeat of December ... Who knows with the wonkiness of the models things can change in a few runs, see above.

Am I missing something in the big picture ?? I'm not plowing much these days so I figured no better time to learn more.

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OHweather, great writeups as always. Reading the great LR forecasters on the New England thread, they sounded optimistic for continued ridging in the EPO region even that could keep the cold air discharge going into Canada despite other indices being unfavorable. Haven't looked at the ens runs, but it sounded like the 12z GEFS was much better today and also mention was made of a Niña like gradient type pattern with southeast ridging. Despite it being a weak Niño, wondering if we might see a 07-08 like setup for at least a time in January. Any additional thoughts on this?

Thanks! The ensembles last night all appeared to keep some ridging into Alaska last night, and if we can keep that nice negative anomaly over the NW Pac that might overwhelm the MJO and allow us to keep ridging there. Based on the temperature anomaly maps for each MJO phase I'd expect the ridging over the Pac to be west of Alaska in phases 3-6, especially 4-6, but that might not occur here.  It's almost more of a La Nina look, I agree, although with a more active STJ. I still think the cold relaxes some for the first week or so of January, but the pattern shown in that timeframe still isn't warm and may be decent north of I-80 or so.

 

Also, after showing a neutral to + EPO in the extended range yesterday, this plot which is I believe based off of the 0z GEFS now shows a -EPO in the extended today. The WPO is also more neutral which likely is because the models now appear to be a little farther west with the aforementioned NW Pac feature.

 

post-525-0-27554700-1419356052_thumb.png

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GFS looks to progressive and suppressive while the ECMWF looks "interesting" by even 144hrs ........

 

what's with the anemic snow on these storms?  Euro takes a low from Central KY to Pittsburgh, good track for the nw half of OH and the best we got is a finger nail wide sliver of 6" snow max thru north central OH.  

 

Putting on my glass half full goggles, that 144 hr timeframe is our next point of interest.   But I have no idea which way it could blow up in our faces.  Equal chances of suppression vs. amped and warm.   

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A Christmas Gift. "Thank goodness EC HRES only runs thru 10-days. I don't want to see anymore. Would be one of wildest winter weather periods in memory."-Ryan Maue. Of course I'm not sure who this targets.

 

East coast.  Two potential storms on the Euro.  One around 180hrs, and another a little after 240hrs. 

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I was scanning the models to try to find a ray of hope for next week. The only thing I could find is the PGFS, which closes off an ull over the four corners and spins up a cyclone as it ejects. The surface low rides the OV giving Southern IN, most of OH, and Southern ON a good hit on New Year's Eve/Day. However, it looks like the lone wolf.

 

Grasping at straws.

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I was scanning the models to try to find a ray of hope for next week. The only thing I could find is the PGFS, which closes off an ull over the four corners and spins up a cyclone as it ejects. The surface low rides the OV giving Southern IN, most of OH, and Southern ON a good hit on New Year's Eve/Day. However, it looks like the lone wolf.

 

Grasping at straws.

 

So much potential at 120 over the four corners on the 12z GFS. But it looks like it's going retrograde/orphan the southern stream component.

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December looks to likely end as a top 20, perhaps top 15, warmest on record here.  And likely only the 3rd time in history with no measurable snowfall.  Even if things miraculously recover from now on, it's a 100% guarantee to be a warmer than normal and be below normal, probably well below normal, in snowfall.  No winter in history has recovered from this double-whammy, so I'm just about ready to call time of death. 

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I trust the models as far as I can throw them right now...but, the 0z Euro has a system for 12/29 and a follow up small event that does good for a decent chunk of OH (and some parts of IN). I'd hold off on the wrist-slitting for now.

 

It looked like if the southern stream wave was a bit slower it could have phased earlier with the incoming northern stream vort.  Could have spun up a decent system earlier on further west. 

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It looked like if the southern stream wave was a bit slower it could have phased earlier with the incoming northern stream vort.  Could have spun up a decent system earlier on further west. 

 

Yeah. It's going to be tough to get anything big I think, with this progressive/fast flow. Of course last winter was the same kind of deal, but things found a way to work out most of the time. 

 

Regardless, there looks to be better cold air availability in the near future, and some SE ridging in the means. If we can get one timed perfectly, it could work out quite well...but I'd lean towards smaller events at the moment. Models will probably be useless on the details, especially in the medium range. I guess I'm a little more optimistic than most, but I think the pattern looks better for some wintry fun in the next week to two weeks. As usual, we will shall see.

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Yeah. It's going to be tough to get anything big I think, with this progressive/fast flow. Of course last winter was the same kind of deal, but things found a way to work out most of the time. 

 

Regardless, there looks to be better cold air availability in the near future, and some SE ridging in the means. If we can get one timed perfectly, it could work out quite well...but I'd lean towards smaller events at the moment. Models will probably be useless on the details, especially in the medium range. I guess I'm a little more optimistic than most, but I think the pattern looks better for some wintry fun in the next week to two weeks. As usual, we will shall see.

 

I'm with you. I think there will be chances. Lots of the 0z Euro ensemble members had several systems. 

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A serious question, not a complaint...what has occurred with the pattern to throw off pretty much every long range forecast this season? Most if not all were calling for colder than normal (some significantly so) with normal to above normal snowfall in pretty much all of the lakes and Ohio valley.

We can no longer say that "there's plenty of winter left", when it comes to the pattern. The most wintry 12-week period when it comes to snow cover and "look and feel" is the last week of nov thru the 3rd week of feb. Outside of that, we can definitely get snow storms...but it isn't guaranteed to stick around very long. So, we may end up going the entire 1st half of this 12 week period with zero 1"+ snow depth days at ORD.

What did all of the long range forecasters miss? I guess you can chalk some of it up to chaos and the imperfection of the science...but not all of it.

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12z euro is bah humbug. moderate system thru OV day 8 then by day 10 most of the country is above normal with the cold pool in Canada retreating.

Edit: after looking at the 12z euro more in depth the cold air is nowhere near retreating. Looks like another big reload coming after that with the big -EPO.

Patience is the best xmas present this year for snow lovers....we are going to need a LOT of it.

I wouldn't worry about the cold air retreating. Why you study a day 10 euro op run is beyond me.
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