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Winter 2014-15 Banter Thread


Stormlover74

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What I find interesting is that folks in the NE forum are saying this run of the Euro isn't that different in its track. I find it so interesting that people can look at same data output and interpret it so differently; it's back to my tea leaves / Harry Potter allusion.

The difference was at h5 with the phase. Its makes all the difference.

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What I find interesting is that folks in the NE forum are saying this run of the Euro isn't that different in its track. I find it so interesting that people can look at same data output and interpret it so differently; it's back to my tea leaves / Harry Potter allusion.

 

There are many factors that go into things like QPF output...barometric depth of the surface cyclone and, of course, how close you are to it (i.e. track)...but there are also more subtle factors as well...things sometimes overlooked by the general public...and this will invariably include whether or not favorable conditions exist aloft to generate copious moisture outputs...the area that receives the heaviest precipitation is the one in which the amount of vertical motion is also most pronounced...lift is absolutely elemental to the equation. 

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There are many factors that go into things like QPF output...barometric depth of the surface cyclone and, of course, how close you are to it (i.e. track)...but there are also more subtle factors as well...things sometimes overlooked by the general public...and this will invariably include whether or not favorable conditions exist aloft to generate copious moisture outputs...the area that receives the heaviest precipitation is the one in which the amount of vertical motion is also most pronounced...lift is absolutely elemental to the equation.

I think it's those subtle factors that have thrown everyone's LR and even short-term forecasts off. Some got so caught up in analogs and SAIs and teleconnections and whatnot, they saw the larger picture without actually seeing the smaller pieces as well. Kind of like looking at an assembled jig-saw without seeing the seams where the pieces fit together.

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I think it's those subtle factors that have thrown everyone's LR and even short-term forecasts off. Some got so caught up in analogs and SAIs and teleconnections and whatnot, they saw the larger picture without actually seeing the smaller pieces as well. Kind of like looking at an assembled jig-saw without seeing the seams where the pieces fit together.

 

There are two elements that must be gravely considered in any long range forecast.  One, the climatological normal.  You can have every single long range index look absolutely perfect...but predicting 200% of average annual snowfall for any jurisdiction is still a very risky thing to do...it just does not happen all that often...otherwise, it would not be 200% of the average...lol.  

Secondly, these long range indexes are not absolute guarantees that there will be a snowy winter...they provide us with guidance that one *may* take place...and historically speaking...when said indexes are in a particular alignment...snow chances were in fact augmented...but in a place like NYC...which averages not very much snow each winter anyway...sometimes factors as vaporous as random chance supersede everything else. 

In a place like the Sierras...if an El Nino is forecast....well, we can say with certainty it will be an above normal winter snow wise because we know El Nino's are good for producing wet winters out west...and things like rain v snow are never in question in the western mountains...all the winter precip will be snow above a certain elevation contour.  But around these parts...too many other factors come into play. 

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Well another ..day..of model..madness ahead ..IMO ...I for one am not thinking ..accumulations ...let's iron out some details ..track ..boundary layer temps etc etc etc..just for the heck of it I went to AccuWeather.. They did not issue snow map ..yet ..they said would issue one soon..they are being less hype filled shocker ...anyhow ..curious to see how next Monday or Tue event plays out as well ..some say it will have colder air to work with ..dam ..if we had blocking here and a -nao those 10-20 inch snow fall predictions would not sound crxy ooo well

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Overnight, the ECMWF backed off somewhat from its prolific qpf numbers while the 6z GFS shifted strongly toward the earlier ECMWF numbers.Today will probably see a convergence of the guidance (and the 6z GFS relative to the 0z run might hint at the start of such convergence).

 

The AO has begun to rise and will likely be positive for the onset of the storm. The historical experience and guidance all suggest a moderate impact is more likely than a major one.

 

My current qpf thoughts (which have changed little from yesterday):

 

< 0.25":

Poughkeepsie

Scranton

 

025"-0.75":

Baltimore

Bridgeport

Hartford (added to the mix)

New York City

Newark

Philadelphia

Washington, DC (IAD and DCA)

 

> 0.75":

Boston (moved up from 0.25"-0.75"

Islip

Providence

 

The push of warm air as the storm approaches the region will result in at least some rain and mixing. Hence, my initial thinking is that cities such as Baltimore, Newark, New York, Philadelphia, and Washington will probably see a 3"-6" snowfall. Boston and Worcester might see 4"-8".

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It's not out of the realm of possibility that we miss out mostly on both the Saturday and Monday storm. The Saturday storm looks warm ad progressive while the Monday storm may trend further north favoring New England more than here.

 

People need to be realistic and not count their chickens. Oh and P.S. PB GFI I never got my clipper. 

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It's not out of the realm of possibility that we miss out mostly on both the Saturday and Monday storm. The Saturday storm looks warm ad progressive while the Monday storm may trend further north favoring New England more than here.

 

People need to be realistic and not count their chickens. Oh and P.S. PB GFI I never got my clipper. 

Negative Sno at it again

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Outside of Long Island/Boroughs, wouldn't the progressive nature of the pattern prevent substantial mixing issues, however reduce snow totals? I was of the opinion that if the GFS is onto something (I lean on the euro) with a more easterly track, that the onshore flow associated with the storm would be muted. Just trying to learn. Thanks in advance.

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Outside of Long Island/Boroughs, wouldn't the progressive nature of the pattern prevent substantial mixing issues, however reduce snow totals? I was of the opinion that if the GFS is onto something (I lean on the euro) with a more easterly track, that the onshore flow associated with the storm would be muted. Just trying to learn. Thanks in advance.

As PB GFI said before the track is not east.. The low never closes off

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Future cast is a joke. I think it's irresponsible to even show it as it was just shown on network tv. It has zero snow across the entire area Saturday zero anywhere including way NW. And it does show 1" of precip so it's not an issue of a miss. You would think after people died last Sunday it might not be advisable to show that

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Future cast is a joke. I think it's irresponsible to even show it as it was just shown on network tv. It has zero snow across the entire area Saturday zero anywhere including way NW. And it does show 1" of precip so it's not an issue of a miss. You would think after people died last Sunday it might not be advisable to show that

Sunday was nuts. Just goes to show how a "minimal" event can be an outright disaster. Given the way the winter has gone I think the public was just unprepared. The first winter event is usually the most costly as far as injuries and accidents. The fact we didn't have a real significant event for almost 2 months prior probably had a lot of influence.

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