psuhoffman Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Been snowing off and on all evening but I've noticed the snow has no correlation to radar. At times it's snowing with nothing on radar and then when under good returns it's not snowing. It's not usually like this but I have noticed it a few times here. Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T. August Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Been snowing off and on all evening but I've noticed the snow has no correlation to radar. At times it's snowing with nothing on radar and then when under good returns it's not snowing. It's not usually like this but I have noticed it a few times here. Weird. During the heaviest snow today, I was only under about 5 dbz when the better returns were south of me. I don't know if it's because of the wind or something, but it was strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowfan Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I don't think anywhere in AA County got close to 50", but I could be wrong. Had over 45" here and I wasn't the only one with a measurement like that. Mitch had more than bwi and I believe dailylurker was as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowfan Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 BWI's official seasonal total for last winter was 39 inches. Pretty sure most close by areas received close to 50. They also had those weird adjustments to the Feb. 2010 blizzards. even last year, they adjusted down for the feb 12-13 event. It was weird and I don't remember seeing any official explanation for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T. August Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Had over 45" here and I wasn't the only one with a measurement like that. Mitch had more than bwi and I believe dailylurker was as well. Never mind then I don't see why they would adjust down. If anything, you would think the totals would increase after revisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowfan Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Yeah, not really sure why they have adjusted down for some events. For snow total reference, here's the CWG article with mappys snow map along with the supporting data. I don't see Mitch or dailylurkers numbers in there....they may not have provided them, but photoguy is in there a few inches higher than me, so there is some support for areas surrounding bwi having larger numbers. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/2014/05/08/how-much-snow-fell-in-your-backyard-mapping-the-2013-2014-winter-snow-totals-in-the-mid-atlantic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighStakes Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 even last year, they adjusted down for the feb 12-13 event. It was weird and I don't remember seeing any official explanation for it. I do remember something about that. I guess that what cost them from recording 40 plus for the year. I'd really like to know the process they use to measure because it sure seems they make it way more difficult than it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T. August Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Flizzard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gymengineer Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I do remember something about that. I guess that what cost them from recording 40 plus for the year. I'd really like to know the process they use to measure because it sure seems they make it way more difficult than it should be. It's straight-forward what initiated the change, but what goes into the current BWI totals is indeed obscure. During the 09/10 changes, LWX finally noticed that the FAA observer's data at BWI could not represent the official Baltimore numbers since reporting by-the-hour would violate the 6-hr rule for snowfall reports. But instead of actually trying to arrive at a reasonable snowfall total for the first two major storms of 09/10, LWX settled on just using snow depth, which doesn't make sense at all for the 24+hr duration events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighStakes Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 It's straight-forward what initiated the change, but what goes into the current BWI totals is indeed obscure. During the 09/10 changes, LWX finally noticed that the FAA observer's data at BWI could not represent the official Baltimore numbers since reporting by-the-hour would violate the 6-hr rule for snowfall reports. But instead of actually trying to arrive at a reasonable snowfall total for the first two major storms of 09/10, LWX settled on just using snow depth, which doesn't make sense at all for the 24+hr duration events. That's interesting to know. You may remember they also had trouble settling on a final number for PDII. If I recall they were not sure initially if the front running snow that occurred Saturday morning should be included in the final total for the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhineasC Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Nice snowy day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WxUSAF Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 BWI revised or added more snow in the evening batch. Either way, they were on the board. 000 NOUS41 KLWX 120255PNSLWXDCZ001-MDZ003>007-009>011-013-014-016>018-501-502-VAZ025>031-036>040-042-050>057-501>504-WVZ050>053-055-501>506-121455-PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENTSPOTTER REPORTSNATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BALTIMORE MD/WASHINGTON DC955 PM EST THU DEC 11 2014THE FOLLOWING ARE UNOFFICIAL OBSERVATIONS TAKEN DURING THE PAST 23HOURS FOR THE STORM THAT HAS BEEN AFFECTING OUR REGION. APPRECIATIONIS EXTENDED TO HIGHWAY DEPARTMENTS...COOPERATIVE OBSERVERS...SKYWARNSPOTTERS AND MEDIA FOR THESE REPORTS. THIS SUMMARY IS ALSO AVAILABLEON OUR HOME PAGE AT WEATHER.GOV/BALTIMORE********************STORM TOTAL SNOWFALL********************LOCATION STORM TOTAL TIME/DATE COMMENTSSNOWFALL OF/INCHES/ MEASUREMENTMARYLAND...ANNE ARUNDEL COUNTY...BWI AIRPORT 0.2 700 PM 12/11 AIRPORT...BALTIMORE COUNTY...2 NW LONG GREEN 0.2 730 PM 12/11 TRAINED SPOTTER...BALTIMORE CITY...PIMLICO 0.2 701 PM 12/11 PUBLIC...CARROLL COUNTY...3 WSW LINEBORO 0.1 550 PM 12/11 TRAINED SPOTTER...HARFORD COUNTY...2 E NORRISVILLE 0.5 637 PM 12/11 TRAINED SPOTTERBEL AIR 0.4 1249 PM 12/11 PUBLICWHITEFORD 0.2 353 AM 12/11 TRAINED SPOTTER...HOWARD COUNTY...2 N COLUMBIA 0.2 1245 PM 12/11 TRAINED SPOTTER1 SSE SIMPSONVILLE 0.2 130 PM 12/11 TRAINED SPOTTERVIRGINIA...ARLINGTON COUNTY...REAGAN NATIONAL AIRP T 414 PM 12/11 AIRPORT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I'm sure during the day yesterday I had more than a trace, but nothing worth measuring last night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighStakes Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I'm sure during the day yesterday I had more than a trace, but nothing worth measuring last night I'm not going to record anything either. We had multiple dustings throughout the day. Probably had close to .5 but never at one time so I wouldn't even know what to put down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WxUSAF Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 When you live in the Manchester-Mt. Parkton snow corridor, there's probably a +/- 10" measuring error for the whole season, so you can easily toss anything under 0.5" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrinceFrederickWx Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 It's straight-forward what initiated the change, but what goes into the current BWI totals is indeed obscure. During the 09/10 changes, LWX finally noticed that the FAA observer's data at BWI could not represent the official Baltimore numbers since reporting by-the-hour would violate the 6-hr rule for snowfall reports. But instead of actually trying to arrive at a reasonable snowfall total for the first two major storms of 09/10, LWX settled on just using snow depth, which doesn't make sense at all for the 24+hr duration events. You left out the final step- they took the snow depth measurement and adjusted it upwards, which was supposed to represent what the total would have been had it been measured every 6 hours. After several revisions, they settled on a total of 25 inches for 2/5-6/2010, revised up from the initial snow depth measurement of 24.7. Of course they never explained their methodology for how they came up with that number though. Also that year they went back and revised 2/2-3/2010, 1/30/2010, and 12/18-19/2009. The Dec. '09 one hurt the most as they went from 21.1 inches down to 18, which took away our snowiest Dec. ever record. I had a problem with these revisions as they all ended up being nice, tidy whole numbers, which makes me think they were just guessing rather than applying some derived formula. There was talk of revising other previous big storms between 1998- Feb. 2010 but it never happened. To be fair, I do think some storms during that time period had measurements that seemed too high (like Feb. 11-12, 2006), but I do think the 09/10 storms were adjusted too low. This is an old article that mentions some of it: http://weblogs.marylandweather.com/2010/02/no_snow_total_for_bwi.html even last year, they adjusted down for the feb 12-13 event. It was weird and I don't remember seeing any official explanation for it. This is something I've seen them do a lot too starting with the 10/11 winter- most of the time the revisions are small (for example, they revised 1/26/11 down from 7.8 to 7.6 inches) but in the case of Feb. 12-13, 2014, its was relatively larger. I don't remember the exact total but it was initially over 13 inches, and the final total now is 11.5 inches. BWI revised or added more snow in the evening batch. Either way, they were on the board. Maybe they read this thread and saw us all complaining. :-) This happened because I speculated on a Dec. shutout- you all can thank me later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mappy Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I'm not going to record anything either. We had multiple dustings throughout the day. Probably had close to .5 but never at one time so I wouldn't even know what to put down. T it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozz Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 You left out the final step- they took the snow depth measurement and adjusted it upwards, which was supposed to represent what the total would have been had it been measured every 6 hours. After several revisions, they settled on a total of 25 inches for 2/5-6/2010, revised up from the initial snow depth measurement of 24.7. Of course they never explained their methodology for how they came up with that number though. Also that year they went back and revised 2/2-3/2010, 1/30/2010, and 12/18-19/2009. The Dec. '09 one hurt the most as they went from 21.1 inches down to 18, which took away our snowiest Dec. ever record. I had a problem with these revisions as they all ended up being nice, tidy whole numbers, which makes me think they were just guessing rather than applying some derived formula. There was talk of revising other previous big storms between 1998- Feb. 2010 but it never happened. To be fair, I do think some storms during that time period had measurements that seemed too high (like Feb. 11-12, 2006), but I do think the 09/10 storms were adjusted too low. This is an old article that mentions some of it: http://weblogs.marylandweather.com/2010/02/no_snow_total_for_bwi.html This is something I've seen them do a lot too starting with the 10/11 winter- most of the time the revisions are small (for example, they revised 1/26/11 down from 7.8 to 7.6 inches) but in the case of Feb. 12-13, 2014, its was relatively larger. I don't remember the exact total but it was initially over 13 inches, and the final total now is 11.5 inches. Maybe they read this thread and saw us all complaining. :-) This happened because I speculated on a Dec. shutout- you all can thank me later. I believe BWI recorded 13" in February 2006... it seems reasonable to me and I don't think it was too high, especially since there were suburbs not too far away in Howard county that received over 20". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchnick Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I believe BWI recorded 13" in February 2006... it seems reasonable to me and I don't think it was too high, especially since there were suburbs not too far away in Howard county that received over 20". my recollection of that event was that I had no complaints with their measurement but it was already melting before the last flakes stopped falling thanks to the warm ground lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrinceFrederickWx Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I believe BWI recorded 13" in February 2006... it seems reasonable to me and I don't think it was too high, especially since there were suburbs not too far away in Howard county that received over 20". 13.1 to be exact... but it always seemed too high to me. It could be like mitchnick said though- it melted so fast by the time it was over the total may have already been lower. But comparing Howard County to Glen Burnie is apples to oranges. They got about 38 inches from 2/5-6/10? They're always much higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WxUSAF Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Updated: 000 NOUS41 KLWX 121536PNSLWXDCZ001-MDZ003>007-009>011-013-014-016>018-501-502-VAZ025>031-036>040-042-050>057-501>504-WVZ050>053-055-501>506-130336-PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENTSPOTTER REPORTSNATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BALTIMORE MD/WASHINGTON DC1036 AM EST FRI DEC 12 2014THE FOLLOWING ARE UNOFFICIAL OBSERVATIONS TAKEN DURING THE PAST 24HOURS FOR THE STORM THAT HAS BEEN AFFECTING OUR REGION. APPRECIATIONIS EXTENDED TO HIGHWAY DEPARTMENTS...COOPERATIVE OBSERVERS...SKYWARNSPOTTERS AND MEDIA FOR THESE REPORTS. THIS SUMMARY IS ALSO AVAILABLEON OUR HOME PAGE AT WEATHER.GOV/BALTIMORE********************STORM TOTAL SNOWFALL********************LOCATION STORM TOTAL TIME/DATE COMMENTSSNOWFALL OF/INCHES/ MEASUREMENTMARYLAND...ANNE ARUNDEL COUNTY...2 NNE FORT MEADE 0.5 500 AM 12/12 COCORAHS1 WSW ODENTON 0.4 700 AM 12/12 COCORAHS3 E LAUREL 0.2 700 AM 12/12 COCORAHS2 SE DAVIDSONVILLE 0.2 700 AM 12/12 COCORAHSBWI AIRPORT 0.2 700 PM 12/11 AIRPORT...BALTIMORE COUNTY...1 NNE UPPER FALLS 1.0 700 AM 12/12 COCORAHS2 NW LONG GREEN 0.2 730 PM 12/11 TRAINED SPOTTER...BALTIMORE CITY...1 N HAMILTON 0.5 600 AM 12/12 COCORAHSPIMLICO 0.2 701 PM 12/11 PUBLIC1 NE PIMLICO 0.2 700 AM 12/12 COCORAHS...CARROLL COUNTY...1 SE ELDERSBURG 0.3 700 AM 12/12 COCORAHS3 NNW GAITHER 0.2 700 AM 12/12 COCORAHS3 WSW LINEBORO 0.1 550 PM 12/11 TRAINED SPOTTER...HARFORD COUNTY...PLEASANT HILLS 1.0 700 AM 12/12 COCORAHS2 E NORRISVILLE 0.7 800 AM 12/12 TRAINED SPOTTERBEL AIR 0.4 1249 PM 12/11 PUBLIC...HOWARD COUNTY...2 W ELKRIDGE 0.2 700 AM 12/12 COCORAHS1 SSE SIMPSONVILLE 0.2 130 PM 12/11 TRAINED SPOTTER2 N COLUMBIA 0.2 700 AM 12/12 COCORAHS2 N COLUMBIA 0.2 1245 PM 12/11 TRAINED SPOTTER2 SE GAITHER 0.2 700 AM 12/12 COCORAHS...PRINCE GEORGES COUNTY...1 E BOWIE 0.1 700 AM 12/12 COCORAHSVIRGINIA...ARLINGTON COUNTY...REAGAN NATIONAL AIRP T 700 PM 12/11 AIRPORT$JACKSON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Chill Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 It's not often when DCA crushes IAD in snowfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Updated: MARYLAND ...ANNE ARUNDEL COUNTY... 2 NNE FORT MEADE 0.5 500 AM 12/12 COCORAHS 1 WSW ODENTON 0.4 700 AM 12/12 COCORAHS I'm halfway in between those two, and at those times, I measured 0.0. Maybe last night there was that much, but not this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WxUSAF Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I'm halfway in between those two, and at those times, I measured 0.0. Maybe last night there was that much, but not this morning. This is 24hr snow total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeybandit Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Ah, in that case, disregard previous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 It's not often when DCA crushes IAD in snowfall. Snow town. Can't stop us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 T it is! I don't even record traces. If I can't get a solid quarter inch I don't even bother recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87storms Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 another chilly/cloudy day. this is one of the worst early season weather patterns i can remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87storms Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 if monday's forecast of 50 and sunny is correct, it's going to feel tropical compared to what we've had lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WxUSAF Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 if monday's forecast of 50 and sunny is correct, it's going to feel tropical compared to what we've had lately. Monday could get kinda warm I think with that setup. Take the over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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