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December Med/Long Range Disco


WinterWxLuvr

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I wouldn't trust specifics the littlest bit, but I'm glad that the 12z models all seem to show the same consistent threat windows of the 29th and 31st-1st.  We'll probably end up with a Chicago blizzard cutter followed by a weak southern slider that gives Charlotte 2-4".  

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Granted we haven't had a true torch this month, but we are running at or above normal across the region, so no, relative to climo it hasn't exactly been chilly.

 

December temp departures to date:

 

DCA: +2.5

IAD: +0.5

BWI: +1.5

 

yea but that's why i mentioned with the cloudy/windy factor we had for what seemed like over a week.  it certainly felt chilly during that time, more so than average.  temp wise, it's been on par.  i consider +1-2 degree to be pretty much average.  getting technical, yes, we've been above average, but in my mind, that's close enough for me to say we've been about average.

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I think 87storms will get his wish with the Christmas cutter... 60s are in reach. 

 

i seriously have no problems with that right now.  much better than 35 and rain.  i've been around this area way too long to know that we're not in our snow wheelhouse yet.  we've been too average in temps for snow, but once january comes around, bring it.

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12z Xbox, 12z GGEM and the last couple Euro runs have all had the weak coastal storm on the 29th.  Given that I'm still shoveling out from yesterday's Euro blizzard, we know how much 6-7 day progs are worth lately though.  

The models are the biggest mess they have been since prior to 2009-10. After consecutive years of much better performance this is an unsatisfactory setback. As Wes suggested, too many shortwaves and fast flow and they grab onto one and max it out and it does not happen. Did not happen over the weekend and the 965 lakes bomb looks marginal.

We are also now at a point we have been at in winter busts past. Snow and cold always 10-15 days away. If we do not change by 1/5/15 then I will be of the conviction that we simply will not change.

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The models are the biggest mess they have been since prior to 2009-10. After consecutive years of much better performance this is an unsatisfactory setback. As Wes suggested, too many shortwaves and fast flow and they grab onto one and max it out and it does not happen. Did not happen over the weekend and the 965 lakes bomb looks marginal.

We are also now at a point we have been at in winter busts past. Snow and cold always 10-15 days away. If we do not change by 1/5/15 then I will be of the conviction that we simply will not change.

1/5 is still about 2 weeks too early to declare things will not change. 1/20 is the measure I like to go by. In years that saw nothing notable during the first half but did turn around to at least end up respectable, the turn started around 1/20. Some examples are 86/87, 99/2000, 04/05, 06/07. Other examples of second half winters where the change took place in February were 78/79, 85/86, 92/93. You could also make an argument for 79/80 as well. Some of the above mentioned winters made the wait worth it.

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1/5 is still about 2 weeks too early to declare things will not change. 1/20 is the measure I like to go by. In years that saw nothing notable during the first half but did turn around to at least end up respectable, the turn started around 1/20. Some examples are 86/87, 99/2000, 04/05, 06/07. Other examples of second half winters where the change took place in February were 78/79, 85/86, 92/93. You could also make an argument for 79/80 as well. Some of the above mentioned winters made the wait worth it.

I'm with you 100% on those winters because I was thinking about most of them myself earlier

"late" winters are all we have some years, but they can be fruitful

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There's no point in LR forecasting this winter.  The models are all over the place this winter, including the all-mighty/too relied upon Euro.  I do think the second-half of winter will be much better, though that's based on gut feeling, nothing scientific/model reading (though that hasn't exactly panned out for us anyways).  

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In addition to the fast flow, One of the problems this month, is that nearly all of our threats are disappearing when they get within 4 days.  Therefore, we are spending all of our time looking at days 4-10.  If we had some threats we wouldn't spend so much time focusing on days 7-10 when skill scores for operational models are at or below climatology. 

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1/5 is still about 2 weeks too early to declare things will not change. 1/20 is the measure I like to go by. In years that saw nothing notable during the first half but did turn around to at least end up respectable, the turn started around 1/20. Some examples are 86/87, 99/2000, 04/05, 06/07. Other examples of second half winters where the change took place in February were 78/79, 85/86, 92/93. You could also make an argument for 79/80 as well. Some of the above mentioned winters made the wait worth it.

That's about right, I always tell people think about summer and how many summers have done a 180 after July 15th, not very many, usually if the pattern of June is going to reverse it does so by mid July. I have seen a few flip later like 2001 but it's fairly rare.

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1/5 is still about 2 weeks too early to declare things will not change. 1/20 is the measure I like to go by. In years that saw nothing notable during the first half but did turn around to at least end up respectable, the turn started around 1/20. Some examples are 86/87, 99/2000, 04/05, 06/07. Other examples of second half winters where the change took place in February were 78/79, 85/86, 92/93. You could also make an argument for 79/80 as well. Some of the above mentioned winters made the wait worth it.

 

Its true that you can have a Dec shutout and still get an above average winter overall, but the odds of a historic winter overall like many called for on this forum are pretty slim to none right now. It's really only happened twice- 1978-79 and 1986-87. Now you can still get a HECS in an otherwise crappy winter (Jan. 2000 and Mar. 1942 come to mind) but most of our historic winters were well underway by this point. And a lot of those you mentioned (85/86, 04/05, 06/07, etc.) were still below average snowfall overall even though the winter itself was backloaded. But I do agree with you that around 1/20 is probably the point of no return.

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Its true that you can have a Dec shutout and still get an above average winter overall, but the odds of a historic winter overall like many called for on this forum are pretty slim to none right now. It's really only happened twice- 1978-79 and 1986-87. Now you can still get a HECS in an otherwise crappy winter (Jan. 2000 and Mar. 1942 come to mind) but most of our historic winters were well underway by this point. And a lot of those you mentioned (85/86, 04/05, 06/07, etc.) were still below average snowfall overall even though the winter itself was backloaded. But I do agree with you that around 1/20 is probably the point of no return.

 

Yeah, a historic winter is off the table at this point... they just never happen two consecutive years since they are so rare to begin with and I don't recall many posters predicting one... but I'm sure there was someone. 

 

I think 150% of average is our ceiling and best case scenario. Otherwise I think the most likely scenario is somewhere between the median and average snowfall. We'll probably get a few good chances this season but anything over 150% of climo requires either a setup that's hard to reach, or a very lucky fluke.

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Yeah, a historic winter is off the table at this point... they just never happen two consecutive years since they are so rare to begin with and I don't recall many posters predicting one... but I'm sure there was someone.

I think 150% of average is our ceiling and best case scenario. Otherwise I think the most likely scenario is somewhere between the median and average snowfall. We'll probably get a few good chances this season but anything over 150% of climo requires a setup that's hard to reach or a very lucky fluke.

Zero logic in this post. The past does not determine the future. You can't say with any certainty that an historic winter is off the table.

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Zero logic in this post. The past does not determine the future. You can't say with any certainty that an historic winter is off the table.

 

I'm 90-95% certain. Enough to have deterministic wording.

 

What I can't stand is people ruling out a good winter, but a historic winter (50"+ for BWI/IAD) is much, much harder to get.

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