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Thanksgiving Eve SECS/MECS Discussion II


gkrangers

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Actually.....I have a question for you. I have noticed that sometimes, as you said, they appear more impressive than they are. I have also seen quite the contrary, though, where bands forming as a system spins up NEXT out of the area barely appear as much of anything on radar, however the precip lingers and is heavy at times. Why would this be ??

 

Closed lows, vertically stacked systems, and a strongly -NAO can always result in longer duration of the bands hanging around...Boxing Day seemed to hang on forever...in that case we got pummeled by the entire storm not just the back end with the deformation band.  If you're in a position where you were too far east initially and the deformation band is your only chance I think how much damage the mid-level dryslot does is a big factor.  If it punches tremendous dry air into the 650-700mb layer you're gonna hurt and the deformation band although it may appear good on radar you're snow growth is gonna blow.....I had this occur in OKC once, we thought we'd get slammed and the mid-level dry slot pulled so much dry air in it killed the snow band behind the 850 and 700 lows.

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These deformation bands are tricky, sometimes they appear impressive on radar but snow growth is bad or there is a dry nose and the ground obs don't reflect the radar reflectivities

so far that band is producing nothing for me  but some light snow(big flake size but light)

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These deformation bands are tricky, sometimes they appear impressive on radar but snow growth is bad or there is a dry nose and the ground obs don't reflect the radar reflectivities

Can confirm, under 25 DbZ right now in westfield with drizzle.

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Closed lows, vertically stacked systems, and a strongly -NAO can always result in longer duration of the bands hanging around...Boxing Day seemed to hang on forever...in that case we got pummeled by the entire storm not just the back end with the deformation band. If you're in a position where you were too far east initially and the deformation band is your only chance I think how much damage the mid-level dryslot does is a big factor. If it punches tremendous dry air into the 650-700mb layer you're gonna hurt and the deformation band although it may appear good on radar you're snow growth is gonna blow.....I had this occur in OKC once, we thought we'd get slammed and the mid-level dry slot pulled so much dry air in it killed the snow band behind the 850 and 700 lows.

A-ha so essentially the "damage" to the mid-levels due to dry air will affect the actual precipitation rates but will not be reflected on radar, appearing it to be more amped (rule of the board right ? When "amped" can be used, it must be) than it really is. Thank you for the awesome response.:..:very informative. It actually got me looking into radars, how they really work, their limitations, etc.....http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_radar

Really interesting stuff.....I love to keep learning more about all things weather

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I'm in danbury...total slop fest. Light snow now and maybe 3-4 inches total since this am.

The hysteria and hype around here was epic.   All for a slushy coating of sleet that is now gone after a change back to rain.   A complete joke and wasted snow day for many districts, luckily ours saw the light and didnt blow a snow day for a rainstorm.

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A good rule of thumb when forecasting for the 5 boroughs of NYC:  Whenever there is a borderline antecedent air mass in place (and to call the one today even "borderline" is to flatter it)...9 times out of 10...whatever the media outlets are predicting with regard to accumulation...go with the lowest amount promulgated.  Too many things can go wrong in marginal snow situations in NYC...and invariably do.   

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A good rule of thumb when forecasting for the 5 boroughs of NYC:  Whenever there is a borderline antecedent air mass in place (and to call the one today even "borderline" is to flatter it)...9 times out of 10...whatever the media outlets are predicting with regard to accumulation...go with the lowest amount promulgated.  Too many things can go wrong in marginal snow situations in NYC...and invariably do.

Yeh Isotherm argued this exact point for 2 days. I think we ( I did ) take the model algo s and forget what 40 N on the coastal plain that's devoid of blocking with a terrible air mass should get you.

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A good rule of thumb when forecasting for the 5 boroughs of NYC: Whenever there is a borderline antecedent air mass in place (and to call the one today even "borderline" is to flatter it)...9 times out of 10...whatever the media outlets are predicting with regard to accumulation...go with the lowest amount promulgated. Too many things can go wrong in marginal snow situations in NYC...and invariably do.

Well said, especially liked the use of the word promulgated.

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Yeh Isotherm argued this exact point for 2 days. I think we ( I did ) take the model algo s and forget what 40 N on the coastal plain that's devoid of blocking with a terrible air mass should get you.

 

 

Yeah, ultimately history / poor pattern of +NAO/AO won out here. There's a reason why the coast virtually never sees significant snow in November in a regime like the present one.

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Yeah, ultimately history / poor pattern of +NAO/AO won out here. There's a reason why the coast virtually never sees significant snow in November in a regime like the present one.

Definite kudos to you. I began to fall for the football Lucy planted under her foot but 9 times out of 10 (maybe 19 out of 20) these marginal, ehh setups don't work out for us down here. And the horrible 700mb low track nailed the coffin shut regardless. 

 

Hopefully later in December can get us some legit winter events. 

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Typical late 90s, early 00s coastal system. We've been spoiled. Flurry party recently thoigh! Wooohoooo. Not. NW burbs can finally stop complaining about screwjobs. I'm actually surprised that the BL wasn't remotely an issue, that 700 and I assume 925 tongue was killer. Was at 33 degrees for a LONG period of time regardless of precip type.

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Yeah, ultimately history / poor pattern of +NAO/AO won out here. There's a reason why the coast virtually never sees significant snow in November in a regime like the present one.

Was surpised the models were so bad too-the RGEM still had big snows till the bitter end.  The Euro too.  GFS and NAM saw the writing on the wall, but not until about 12-18 hrs before go time.

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 10000% agree....    euro snow  maps from  EUROWX.COM   was spot on   for   I-95... WXBELL snow maps were    AWFUL

 

The hysteria and hype around here was epic.   All for a slushy coating of sleet that is now gone after a change back to rain.   A complete joke and wasted snow day for many districts, luckily ours saw the light and didnt blow a snow day for a rainstorm.

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learned that rule back in 1989

 

A good rule of thumb when forecasting for the 5 boroughs of NYC:  Whenever there is a borderline antecedent air mass in place (and to call the one today even "borderline" is to flatter it)...9 times out of 10...whatever the media outlets are predicting with regard to accumulation...go with the lowest amount promulgated.  Too many things can go wrong in marginal snow situations in NYC...and invariably do.   

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5 days  ago In took alot   of **** from  my forecast/ argument that NYC  would NOT see any accumulating snow

 a lot of crap

 

Iso thought 0 at the park  - I thought  EAST of JFK 0 but 3 at the park.  Will not make that mistake again with that set up

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A lot of people on here and other sites said NYC would not see accumulating snow. 

Dude Upton had 4 to 8  out the day before - DT arch nemesis had 3 to 6  that morning . A private group out of Colorado had 6 .   Most / IF NOT ALL METS had 1 to 3 at the park .

 

1 non met here had 0 - ISO

 

Everyone thought the 700s would stop short of the park enough for there to be accumulating snow at even 5 to 1 .

No one saw ZERO .

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Dude Upton had 4 to 8  out the day before - DT arch nemesis had 3 to 6  that morning . A private group out of Colorado had 6 .   Most / IF NOT ALL METS had 1 to 3 at the park .

 

1 non met here had 0 - ISO

 

Everyone thought the 700s would stop short of the park enough for there to be accumulating snow at even 5 to 1 .

No one saw ZERO .

I told snow88 about 2 days before, that it might snow, but it would basically be white rain. The EURO had painted that warming in the atmosphere for days. And some people on accuweather and usa wx also stated the same.

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