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Lake Effect Snow Belts Discussion Thread

TugHillMatt

By TugHillMatt,
in Lakes/Ohio Valley

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TugHillMatt

TugHillMatt

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Can;t go wrong up here for sure, NWL is a great spot, you will see many 2'+ events, sadly probably never close to 4-5' like Western NY, but in my opinion the snow is better used up here for winter sports especially snowmobiling.  A lot less thaws up here with more consistent temps. There are many good spots to live in NWL but you have to be able to make it work financially. Another consideration is where you would like to live, I chose the gaylord area because I love being near the "Big" city for the modern conveniences. Where Bo was is Elsworth is a very small town with not much besides a couple mom n pop shops etc. Everyone has their preference but I live about 7 miles South West of Gaylord so I get the woods and isolated feel, but only a couple minutes from a home depot or Applebees etc. Not to mention I am a almost lock for 150" a year good year 200".

 

As Bo said, the lake does usually freeze up mid-late winter which we lose our LES guns, if not for that Gaylord would probably hit 200" a year pretty easily, the almost 1500' sea level helps immensely. IF it was my choice I would move out West in the mountains just because I love powder and free ranging on my sled, but couldn't get the wife to move that far :) Was lucky enough to move to Gaylord. I have no complaints I love this area and will retire here but have a condo in the deep south.

 

I had a job offer in Gaylord this summer and REALLY wanted to take it because I love that area and all the snow they get. But, my wife resisted and said it was "too far out and north". :( That was really tough for me. 

Haven't measured in awhile. Have to be over 3 feet. I am 2-3 miles north from the NWS location in Hamburg. There is a death band 5 miles north of me that hasn't moved since last night. That location is getting 5-6 inches per hour for hours and hours....If anyone gets 100 its West Seneca/Lackawanna/OP/Lancaster

 

My friends and I went to Niagara Falls in December 2001 during the crazy snow they got then. I remember driving on our way home to PA and when we drove through Lancaster, we were just in awe of how high the snow banks were. Literal walls of snow 15 to 30 feet along all the roads.

I still stand by that notion. I don't live in a LES snowbelt. I had 160 inches last year, Perrysburg 30 mins south of me had 330 inches. I can drive to the city in 15 minutes. I live in a southern suburb of Buffalo. My parents live in a northern suburb and have 2 inches. Do they live in the snowbelt?

 

I understand what you're saying, as the "real snowbelt" is in between Buffalo and the "ski towns". However, if you're in an area that can get slammed by lake effect snow, you're in a "snow belt".

I always used to think of the western NY state snow belt as running from south end of BUF to just north of Olean, but of course you can get heavy snow squalls further north sometimes in either SW or N-NE winds. I wouldn't say ROC was in the snow belt but they can get heavy lake effect. But I would say SYR and ART are in snow belts. Just a general term anyway, same in south-central Ontario, locals talk of the "snow belt" as being 20-30 miles north of London and north, then generally a bit north of K-W and Guelph to around Orangeville and over towards Lindsay, but heavy snow squalls can sometimes hit south of that zone.

 

There was some chat on here about where is the best LES in Ontario -- would say the northern half of Simcoe County (Barrie, Orillia and Midland), south Parry Sound and most of Muskoka, also Grey-Bruce can be epic (that would be the part around YVV that separates Lake Huron from Ggn Bay). The Lucan snow belt just north of London is a bit less guaranteed to hit but when it does, also epic amounts. Then in WSW winds they get hit in southern Prince Edward county that sticks out into eastern Lake Ontario, as well as in south Niagara across from BUF. If the winds come around more to SW then Kingston can get very heavy snow but it's not spoken of as being a snow belt area like Watertown NY would be. Of course there's also a heavy snow zone east of Lake Superior.

 

Nobody would call Toronto-Hamilton a snow belt but when winds are persistently east to northeast then it becomes a temporary snow belt. The Georgian Bay snows usually peter out rather gradually and typically have 100-150 miles of reach inland across Algonquin Park and towards the Ottawa valley, so that snow belt is fairly extensive to the north of Peterborough. I used to live in Lakefield northeast of Peterborough and the locals talked about the snow belt starting just north of there but we would get a lot of light leftover lake effect anyway, it wasn't that sharp a gradient. Around Barrie ON there is often a very sharp gradient, when I lived in that area in 1973-76 I got used to driving in and out of walls of S+ conditions with bright sunshine in between the bands. The ideal snow location in that region would be Midland on Georgian Bay.

When I lived in Muskoka, The area from Gravenhurst to Bracebridge consistently had the most lake effect snow. 

 

 

 
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michsnowfreak

michsnowfreak

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Whenever a person brings up a storm of yesteryear, they usually greatly exaggerate the amount of snow that fell. In the age of climate data online, it can easily be debunked. But in Buffalo (or any lake belt) you an throw that out the window. "I remember in November 2014 we got 5 feet of snow...". Snowfall officially at BUF today? 2.7" :lol:

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michsnowfreak

michsnowfreak

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This is freakin' awesome, especially since I was out there a few months ago and now know the area that is getting literally buried. Great pics everyone!

 

Serious question, how can you even attempt to get an accurate measurement?

I would guess you would clear a large area every 6 hours. I know last winter the snow was way too deep to just clear the snow board, I shoveled around it. Because this depth will obviously sink in this lake effect storm. Those who see 5 feet will probably have 3-4 feet on the ground at storms end.

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TugHillMatt

TugHillMatt

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This is freakin' awesome, especially since I was out there a few months ago and now know the area that is getting literally buried. Great pics everyone!

 

Serious question, how can you even attempt to get an accurate measurement?

 

Yeah, it's cool to picture what a place looks like now that you have a visual of it in your head.

 

Usually the most efficient way is to get averages over many locations and then figure out what the snow to liquid ratio is, since LES is often very fluffy.

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Geos

Geos

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nw lower is an awesome belt.  If you live close to the coast, you get the nw, wnw,w,wsw, and sw and  nnw flows are decent as well.  And if you lived inland some like Josh in Gaylord, you have an elevation rise from 600 to 1400 in 25 miles or so.  Negatives are, N lake MI is pretty shallow and can freeze up by Feb.  But I've seen it snow there to some degree for 10-14 days nonstop.  100-150" is a great seasonal snow total... and the thaws aren't too bad either.

I prefer the raw wilderness of the UP and was looking for 200+"....

 

 

Can;t go wrong up here for sure, NWL is a great spot, you will see many 2'+ events, sadly probably never close to 4-5' like Western NY, but in my opinion the snow is better used up here for winter sports especially snowmobiling.  A lot less thaws up here with more consistent temps. There are many good spots to live in NWL but you have to be able to make it work financially. Another consideration is where you would like to live, I chose the gaylord area because I love being near the "Big" city for the modern conveniences. Where Bo was is Elsworth is a very small town with not much besides a couple mom n pop shops etc. Everyone has their preference but I live about 7 miles South West of Gaylord so I get the woods and isolated feel, but only a couple minutes from a home depot or Applebees etc. Not to mention I am a almost lock for 150" a year good year 200".

 

As Bo said, the lake does usually freeze up mid-late winter which we lose our LES guns, if not for that Gaylord would probably hit 200" a year pretty easily, the almost 1500' sea level helps immensely. IF it was my choice I would move out West in the mountains just because I love powder and free ranging on my sled, but couldn't get the wife to move that far :) Was lucky enough to move to Gaylord. I have no complaints I love this area and will retire here but have a condo in the deep south.

 

Nice details. I've been to both of your areas before. Been to the UP a few more time than the NWL. Both places are unique, peaceful and pretty countrysides. 100-150" sounds great for an annual snowfall. Several 2'+ events a winter sounds pretty cool. It's nice that neither of you don't get affected by thaws much. I do like the continuous snow cover in the winter, just not days on end of bitter cold, which it's nice to have that moderating effect on the lakes.

Josh has the Lake Superior and Michigan connection, so that's cool. I know how remote is up by you Bo. It's nice having conveniences like you have Josh. Of course I know that Marquette has quite a few things on the main drag. 

Having the feel of being out in the country, but within like 20 minutes or so from modern conveniences is nice.

 

---

 

Looks like the WNY band is taming down a bit and drifting closer to downtown Buffalo now. 

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Jonger

Jonger

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Whenever a person brings up a storm of yesteryear, they usually greatly exaggerate the amount of snow that fell. In the age of climate data online, it can easily be debunked. But in Buffalo (or any lake belt) you an throw that out the window. "I remember in November 2014 we got 5 feet of snow...". Snowfall officially at BUF today? 2.7" :lol:

 

A real weenie would supply a full GPS coordinate of the event..

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josh_4184

josh_4184

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Nice details. I've been to both of your areas before. Been to the UP a few more time than the NWL. Both places are unique, peaceful and pretty countrysides. 100-150" sounds great for an annual snowfall. Several 2'+ events a winter sounds pretty cool. It's nice that neither of you don't get affected by thaws much. I do like the continuous snow cover in the winter, just not days on end of bitter cold, which it's nice to have that moderating effect on the lakes.

Josh has the Lake Superior and Michigan connection, so that's cool. I know how remote is up by you Bo. It's nice having conveniences like you have Josh. Of course I know that Marquette has quite a few things on the main drag. 

Having the feel of being out in the country, but within like 20 minutes or so from modern conveniences is nice.

 

---

 

Looks like the WNY band is taming down a bit and drifting closer to downtown Buffalo now. 

I guess I can speak all who live in a LES area and say each has its pros and cons but they all are awesome and wouldn't live anywhere else!!

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Jonger

Jonger

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Nice details. I've been to both of your areas before. Been to the UP a few more time than the NWL. Both places are unique, peaceful and pretty countrysides. 100-150" sounds great for an annual snowfall. Several 2'+ events a winter sounds pretty cool. It's nice that neither of you don't get affected by thaws much. I do like the continuous snow cover in the winter, just not days on end of bitter cold, which it's nice to have that moderating effect on the lakes.

Josh has the Lake Superior and Michigan connection, so that's cool. I know how remote is up by you Bo. It's nice having conveniences like you have Josh. Of course I know that Marquette has quite a few things on the main drag. 

Having the feel of being out in the country, but within like 20 minutes or so from modern conveniences is nice.

 

---

 

Looks like the WNY band is taming down a bit and drifting closer to downtown Buffalo now. 

Marquette actually is a better town than Gaylord, hands down. I would use Traverse city as the bigger city to venture to, but even that is a distance.

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Harry

Harry

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Unreal... So jealous. What an amazing cut off... Just imagine driving 2 miles through the cut-off. You would go from 4-5' in the south side, to 6" or less within a couple miles.

I would love to see that someday.

 

You may wanna do the quick route to those areas just south of Lake Michigan when we get a north flow event. Ofcourse i am not sure if any event off this lake has come close to this? Guessing it is possible to get similar results if the flow were to hold long enough?

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Hoosier

Hoosier

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You may wanna do the quick route to those areas just south of Lake Michigan when we get a north flow event. Ofcourse i am not sure if any event off this lake has come close to this? Guessing it is possible to get similar results if the flow were to hold long enough?

 

 

I doubt there's been a north flow event off of Lake Michigan that comes close to what's happened around Buffalo.  I can say that I've never found one when researching past events.  It can snow 2-4" or more per hour in the most intense setups, so that's not the issue... but as you said, it's getting the flow to hold steady long enough without wobbling.  

 

There was a pretty sharp cutoff in the 1/21 event in Lake county IN last winter.  My mom had like 5" and 2 miles east had 12+ with some amounts near 2 feet a couple miles east of that.  I thought that was impressive, but then I look at what's happened today (2" to 50"+ in about 5 miles) and just shake my head in disbelief. 

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