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NNE Winter Thread


powderfreak

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Trees nicely frosted with 1.0" overnight, about the best my location ever gets from wraparound.  Snowpack is 9" of cement.  If we got some real cold (maybe after Christmas?) it would probably hold an elephant.

Haven't been reading the Dec thread, but no significant cold for the next 2 weeks? Woods are going to be soggy for awhile.

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Happy to say, I took the cake.  23" FTW

 

Burlington, VT

Weather Forecast Office

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NOUS41 KBTV 112205PNSBTVNYZ026>031-034-035-087-VTZ001>012-016>019-121005-PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENTSPOTTER REPORTSNATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BURLINGTON VT505 PM EST THU DEC 11 2014THE FOLLOWING ARE UNOFFICIAL OBSERVATIONS TAKEN DURING THE STORM THATAFFECTED OUR REGION OVER THE PAST 2 DAYS. APPRECIATION IS EXTENDED TOHIGHWAY DEPARTMENTS...COOPERATIVE AND COCORAHS OBSERVERS...SKYWARNSPOTTERS AND MEDIA FOR THESE REPORTS. THIS SUMMARY IS ALSO AVAILABLEON OUR HOME PAGE AT WEATHER.GOV/BURLINGTON********************STORM TOTAL SNOWFALL********************LOCATION          STORM TOTAL     TIME/DATE   COMMENTS                                        SNOWFALL           OF                      /INCHES/   MEASUREMENTNEW YORK...CLINTON COUNTY...   ALTONA                22.0   815 AM 12/11  PUBLIC                     4 ESE PERU            20.7   600 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   PERU                  18.5   830 AM 12/11  PUBLIC                     5 E DANNEMORA         18.0   800 AM 12/11  PUBLIC                     PLATTSBURGH           15.0  1057 PM 12/10  BROADCAST MEDIA            1 S PLATTSBURGH 1 S   12.1   606 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             KEESEVILLE            12.0   449 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                  ...ESSEX COUNTY...   AU SABLE FORKS        19.0  1051 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     2 N LAKE PLACID       13.1   745 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   LAKE PLACID           13.0   645 AM 12/10  PUBLIC                     WESTPORT              13.0   841 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     UPPER JAY             13.0   453 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     TICONDEROGA           11.0  1035 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     5 NNE OLMSTEDVILLE     8.4   800 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   PORT HENRY             7.0   800 AM 12/11  BROADCAST MEDIA         ...FRANKLIN COUNTY...   1 SW MALONE           15.0   700 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             6 N SARANAC LAKE      15.0   647 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   HOGANSBURG            10.0   746 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                  ...ST. LAWRENCE COUNTY...   4 SW HAMMOND          10.8   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   3 NW GOUVERNEUR       10.0   600 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             2 SW OGDENSBURG        9.8   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   OGDENSBURG             9.0  1047 PM 12/10  TRAINED SPOTTER            PARISHVILLE            9.0   454 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     MASSENA                8.0   730 AM 12/11  PUBLIC                     1 NNW POTSDAM          5.5   253 PM 12/10  TRAINED SPOTTER         VERMONT...ADDISON COUNTY...   ORWELL                19.5  1022 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     1 WNW ORWELL          19.4   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   BRISTOL               19.0  1025 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     CORNWALL              16.5   758 AM 12/11  PUBLIC                     VERGENNES             16.0  1000 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     EAST MIDDLEBURY       16.0  1025 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     2 NW BRIDPORT         13.8   831 PM 12/10  TRAINED SPOTTER            1 NE VERGENNES        13.7   804 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             NORTH FERRISBURGH     13.0  1010 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     MIDDLEBURY            12.1   800 AM 12/11  PUBLIC                  ...CALEDONIA COUNTY...   HARDWICK              13.5  1148 AM 12/10  PUBLIC                     4 N WALDEN            11.0   700 AM 12/10  CO-OP OBSERVER             3 NNW SHEFFIELD        9.2   600 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   EAST HARDWICK          8.5   454 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     2 S WHEELOCK           4.7   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   2 SW SUTTON            4.1   830 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             ST. JOHNSBURY          3.5   617 PM 12/10  CO-OP OBSERVER             2 NE SUTTON            3.0   700 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER          ...CHITTENDEN COUNTY...   4 NNE UNDERHILL       17.9   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   5 NNE UNDERHILL       15.4   900 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   UNDERHILL             12.0   832 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     2 NNW WILLISTON       12.0   938 PM 12/10  NWS EMPLOYEE               1 NE SOUTH BURLINGTO  11.9   832 PM 12/10  NWS OFFICE                 1 SSW UNDERHILL       11.5  1033 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     WINOOSKI              10.5   930 AM 12/11  PUBLIC                     1 W MILTON            10.2   746 AM 12/11  NWS EMPLOYEE               2 SE SOUTH BURLINGTO  10.1   700 AM 12/11  NWS EMPLOYEE               JERICHO               10.0  1110 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     1 E NASHVILLE          9.4   716 AM 12/11  NWS EMPLOYEE               2 NW WESTFORD          9.2  1013 PM 12/10  NWS EMPLOYEE               1 S ESSEX CENTER       9.2   615 AM 12/11  NWS EMPLOYEE               RICHMOND               9.0   453 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     1 NNW JERICHO          8.7   730 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   ESSEX JUNCTION         8.0   744 PM 12/10  NWS EMPLOYEE               1 N MALLETTS BAY       7.5   614 AM 12/11  NWS EMPLOYEE            ...ESSEX COUNTY...   1 ENE AVERILL          6.3   800 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             2 NNW LUNENBURG        1.7   530 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   1 N ISLAND POND        1.4  1020 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER          ...FRANKLIN COUNTY...   ST. ALBANS             8.8   832 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     2 NNE ST. ALBANS       6.5   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   SWANTON                6.0   831 PM 12/10  TRAINED SPOTTER            FAIRFAX                4.0   450 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     RICHFORD               3.0   745 PM 12/10  TRAINED SPOTTER         ...LAMOILLE COUNTY...   MOUNT MANSFIELD       17.5   400 PM 12/10  CO-OP OBSERVER             EDEN                  17.0   859 AM 12/11  PUBLIC                     JEFFERSONVILLE        13.0   915 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     CAMBRIDGE             11.0   454 PM 12/11  AT 1000 FT ELEVATION       MORRISVILLE           10.8   743 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     STOWE                  9.5  1046 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     SW STOWE               9.4   730 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   3 NE HYDE PARK         6.5   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                ...ORANGE COUNTY...   3 SW BRAINTREE        17.5   600 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   WILLIAMSTOWN          14.5   930 AM 12/10  PUBLIC                     RANDOLPH CENTER        9.0  1056 PM 12/10  TRAINED SPOTTER            BROOKFIELD             6.0   453 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     CORINTH                5.0   700 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             UNION VILLAGE DAM      4.6   800 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             FAIRLEE                3.0   451 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                  ...ORLEANS COUNTY...   2 NW DERBY CENTER     17.0  1003 AM 12/10  COCORAHS                   4 NNE GREENSBORO      15.3   615 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   2 NNE GREENSBORO      13.3   700 AM 12/10  COCORAHS                   3 ENE BARTON          12.3   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   2 NNW GREENSBORO      11.2   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   1 WNW WESTFIELD       10.7   800 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   LOWELL                10.0   452 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     7 SE MORGAN            9.4   800 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   HOLLAND                7.0  1030 AM 12/11  PUBLIC                     WESTFIELD              7.0  1149 AM 12/10  PUBLIC                     NEWPORT                6.8   700 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER          ...RUTLAND COUNTY...   KILLINGTON            19.0   746 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     DANBY                 14.0   830 AM 12/11  PUBLIC                     1 NNW WEST CASTLETON  14.0   615 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     2 W PAWLET            13.0  1220 AM 12/11  PUBLIC                     W PAWLET              13.0   700 AM 12/11  PUBLIC                     SUDBURY               12.0   800 AM 12/11  BROADCAST MEDIA            1 N RUTLAND           11.2   700 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             PITTSFORD             11.0   745 AM 12/11  TRAINED SPOTTER            1 N WEST RUTLAND       9.0   815 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                ...WASHINGTON COUNTY...   3 SSE WARREN          23.0   900 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   2 SE WAITSFIELD       18.3   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   MORETOWN              17.5   800 AM 12/11  BROADCAST MEDIA            WAITSFIELD            16.0   746 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     EAST WARREN           15.0   715 AM 12/10  PUBLIC                     4 SSE WARREN          14.0  1215 PM 12/10  COCORAHS                   1 N NORTHFIELD        12.0   745 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             5 NNE WATERBURY       11.9   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   BARRE                 11.5   830 AM 12/11  PUBLIC                     4 WNW BERLIN           9.9   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   2 W WORCESTER          9.1   700 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             PLAINFIELD             7.5   700 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             3 NW WATERBURY         7.4   600 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   4 ENE CABOT            6.8   900 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   2 SW EAST CALAIS       6.1   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                ...WINDSOR COUNTY...   NORTH POMFRET         17.3   742 PM 12/10  COCORAHS                   3 S LUDLOW            14.1   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   3 N POMFRET           12.1   730 AM 12/10  COCORAHS                   1 S ROCHESTER         10.5   712 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             1 WSW LUDLOW          10.0   800 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   HARTLAND               9.5   600 AM 12/11  PUBLIC                     ROCHESTER              9.5   615 PM 12/10  PUBLIC                     WOODSTOCK              9.0   800 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             N HARTLAND RES         7.5   700 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             4 N BETHEL             6.6   700 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER          ********************STORM TOTAL RAINFALL********************LOCATION          STORM TOTAL     TIME/DATE   COMMENTS                                        RAINFALL           OF                      /INCHES/   MEASUREMENTNEW YORK...CLINTON COUNTY...   4 ESE PERU            2.01   600 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   1 S PLATTSBURGH 1 S   1.27   606 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER          ...ESSEX COUNTY...   5 NNE OLMSTEDVILLE    1.63   800 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   2 N LAKE PLACID       1.56   745 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   3 W NEWCOMB           0.63   830 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER          ...FRANKLIN COUNTY...   1 SW MALONE           1.28   700 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             6 N SARANAC LAKE      1.22   647 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                ...ST. LAWRENCE COUNTY...   3 NW GOUVERNEUR       0.83   600 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             2 SW OGDENSBURG       0.50   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                VERMONT...ADDISON COUNTY...   1 WNW ORWELL          2.29   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   1 NE VERGENNES        1.86   804 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER          ...CALEDONIA COUNTY...   3 NNW SHEFFIELD       1.94   600 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   2 S WHEELOCK          1.65   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   2 NE SUTTON           1.57   700 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             4 N WALDEN            1.20   700 AM 12/10  CO-OP OBSERVER             2 SW SUTTON           1.14   830 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER          ...CHITTENDEN COUNTY...   4 NNE UNDERHILL       3.79   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   5 NNE UNDERHILL       2.32   900 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   1 NNW JERICHO         2.27   730 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   1 E NASHVILLE         1.79   645 AM 12/11  NWS EMPLOYEE            ...ESSEX COUNTY...   1 N ISLAND POND       1.19  1020 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             2 NNW LUNENBURG       0.72   530 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                ...FRANKLIN COUNTY...   2 NNE ST. ALBANS      2.29   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                ...LAMOILLE COUNTY...   3 NE HYDE PARK        3.92   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   SW STOWE              2.50   730 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   MOUNT MANSFIELD       2.20   400 PM 12/10  CO-OP OBSERVER          ...ORANGE COUNTY...   3 SW BRAINTREE        2.12   600 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   CORINTH               1.77   700 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             UNION VILLAGE DAM     1.59   800 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER          ...ORLEANS COUNTY...   2 NW DERBY CENTER     3.15  1215 PM 12/10  COCORAHS                   3 ENE BARTON          3.14   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   4 NNE GREENSBORO      2.53   615 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   1 WNW WESTFIELD       2.29   800 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   2 NNW GREENSBORO      1.94   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   NEWPORT               1.82   700 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             7 SE MORGAN           1.80   800 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   2 NNE GREENSBORO      1.20   700 AM 12/10  COCORAHS                ...RUTLAND COUNTY...   1 N RUTLAND           1.78   700 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             1 N WEST RUTLAND      1.77   815 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                ...WASHINGTON COUNTY...   3 NW WATERBURY        5.65   600 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   3 SSE WARREN          3.46   900 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   5 NNE WATERBURY       3.38   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   4 ENE CABOT           2.95   900 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   4 WNW BERLIN          2.54  1215 PM 12/10  COCORAHS                   2 SE WAITSFIELD       2.47   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   2 SW EAST CALAIS      2.40  1215 PM 12/10  COCORAHS                   1 N NORTHFIELD        2.28   745 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             4 SSE WARREN          2.28  1215 PM 12/10  COCORAHS                   2 W WORCESTER         1.91   700 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             PLAINFIELD            1.87   700 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER          ...WINDSOR COUNTY...   1 S ROCHESTER         2.66   712 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             1 WSW LUDLOW          2.34   800 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   3 S LUDLOW            2.27   700 AM 12/11  COCORAHS                   4 N BETHEL            1.91   700 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             WOODSTOCK             1.89   800 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             N HARTLAND RES        1.73   700 AM 12/11  CO-OP OBSERVER             3 N POMFRET           1.52   730 AM 12/10  COCORAHS                
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Event totals: 13.8” Snow/2.65" L.E.

 

We had some additional accumulations overnight with this evening and I've added the intermediate collection data below.  The snow is definitely feeling a lot like upslope-quality stuff now; it's hovering around the 5% H2O mark in terms of density.

 

Details from the 12:00 A.M. Waterbury observations:

 

New Snow: 1.6 inches

New Liquid: 0.06 inches

Snow/Water Ratio: 26.7

Snow Density: 3.8% H2O

Temperature: 29.1 F

Sky: Light Snow (2-8 mm flakes)

Snow at the stake: 14.0"

 

 

Details from the 6:00 A.M. Waterbury observations:

 

New Snow: 0.3 inches

New Liquid: 0.02 inches

Snow/Water Ratio: 15.0

Snow Density: 6.7% H2O

Temperature: 27.9 F

Sky: Flurries

Snow at the stake: 14.0"

 

We've had another few tenths of snow today with continued light snow activity.

 

I've also gone ahead and updated the storm totals for the Vermont ski areas as of this morning, and the north to south listing is below:

 

Jay Peak: 30”

Smuggler’s Notch: 21”

Stowe: 21”

Bolton Valley: 24”

Mad River Glen: 31”

Sugarbush: 21”

Pico: 24”

Killington: 29”

Okemo: 14”

Bromley: 17”

Stratton: 17”

Mount Snow: 16”

 

That Mad River Glen number was a bit curious relative to surrounding resorts yesterday as people mentioned, but I've still gone with it because that's what they're saying.  They reported another inch of snow today so if yesterday was correct than their storm total should be 32", but they haven't bumped their 31" so I'll stick with that for now.

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Classic blocked flow yesterday and last night...

 

RT 100 corridor on the east side with only 0.5-1.1" of snowfall, while the west slope communities had 3+.  As usual, J.Spin on the Spine/county line was just far enough west to get the better snows...literally the perfect spot for getting in on both east and west side events.  J.Spin, it still boggles my mind how you just happened to land yourself there, with real no understanding of the implications at the time.  Had you purchased a house like 3 miles in either direction it would've had decent changes to your overall climate averages. 

 

 

You could also see the blocked flow in the ski area snowfall reports... with Smuggs seeing 5" on the west, while we saw 2" at Stowe.  Bolton Valley with 3-4", and then again Sugarbush with 2" on the east side of the Spine. 

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Looks awesome. Hope to see that soon. Love wet snow. 

 

Question, you guys said it was great skiing, but isn't that bad on the knees to turn? Well groomed I guess?

 

For me I stayed mainly on groomed trails but dabbled in the powder only a little (I don't have the skis for that). I am not sure if it is any worse than skiing in general for the knees.

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For me I stayed mainly on groomed trails but dabbled in the powder only a little (I don't have the skis for that). I am not sure if it is any worse than skiing in general for the knees.

 

I just picture wet snow being awful to turn, especially if not groomed or packed down. Although, I assume they groomed the crap out of that stuff.

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Pretty cool meso-scale stuff today.  We were on the lesser receiving end, but were treated to some cool views.  With the really blocked flow last night and today, we were much drier than the west slope, but that's how it goes sometimes.  More unblocked favors the east side, while blocked is west side, very blocked into the Burlington area.  Its like taking meso-scale and making it micro-scale.

 

We saw a bunch of good wave clouds with the low inversion levels and low level moisture interacting.

 

 

 

 

 

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Looks awesome. Hope to see that soon. Love wet snow. 

 

Question, you guys said it was great skiing, but isn't that bad on the knees to turn? Well groomed I guess?

 

The end portion of the snowfall definitely dried out.  The skiing on Wednesday was borderline horrific for ACL-ripping snow.  It was sort of fun just because it was a lot of snow, but once you got down low the snow was just soaking wet and asking for problems.  Then on Thursday, the second part had dried out and has been topped with a couple more inches of fluff.  Was good skiing.  The wet stuff solidified somewhat.  Its still not blower powder skiing, and can be a bit chunky underfoot with lots of wet snow now frozen.  There's a lot of moisture in this snow...like 3" of LE. Its really just about perfect for this time of year.  It'll set up the season base.

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The end portion of the snowfall definitely dried out.  The skiing on Wednesday was borderline horrific for ACL-ripping snow.  It was sort of fun just because it was a lot of snow, but once you got down low the snow was just soaking wet and asking for problems.  Then on Thursday, the second part had dried out and has been topped with a couple more inches of fluff.  Was good skiing.  The wet stuff solidified somewhat.  Its still not blower powder skiing, and can be a bit chunky underfoot with lots of wet snow now frozen.  There's a lot of moisture in this snow...like 3" of LE. Its really just about perfect for this time of year.  It'll set up the season base.

 

Yeah that's good news once we head later in March. Unfortunately my next statement probably means I rain, but you guys are money through at least 12/25. 

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For me I stayed mainly on groomed trails but dabbled in the powder only a little (I don't have the skis for that). I am not sure if it is any worse than skiing in general for the knees.

 

 

Skiing untracked powder vis a vis groomed snow- powder is far more forgiving on the joints with the right form IMHO. and you don't need powder skis (which only came on the scene recently, really).  it's just that good, open untracked powder lines are hard to come by on the East coast- at resorts, anyway, on any given day. I'd say give powder skiing a shot- it's a game changer for a lot of people.  

 

I just picture wet snow being awful to turn, especially if not groomed or packed down. Although, I assume they groomed the crap out of that stuff.

It is without question a challenge that is, often, sketchy.  That is, until it sets up nicely like it did today, and then you have a nice firm underlying snow with great rebound and support with 4-6"of nice light stuff on top.  Just phenomenal snow conditions in VT right now.

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Burlington, VT

Weather Forecast Office

 

WFO BTV Latest Headlines

 

I've been meaning to comment on that list of reports – I'm not sure how they import/process the data, but there is some serious error with regard to what I reported to CoCoRaHS from our site (3 NW Waterbury).  That list has the following:

 

 

********************STORM TOTAL SNOWFALL********************

 

LOCATION          STORM TOTAL     TIME/DATE   COMMENTS                  

                     SNOWFALL           OF

                     /INCHES/   MEASUREMENT

 

...WASHINGTON COUNTY...

   3 NW WATERBURY         7.4   600 AM 12/11  COCORAHS               

 

 

********************STORM TOTAL RAINFALL********************

 

LOCATION          STORM TOTAL     TIME/DATE   COMMENTS                  

                     RAINFALL           OF

                     /INCHES/   MEASUREMENT

...WASHINGTON COUNTY...

   3 NW WATERBURY        5.65   600 AM 12/11  COCORAHS     

 

 

 

That's 7.4" of snow and 5.65" of liquid, and I'm not sure how either of those got in there; the snow is low, and the liquid is incredibly high.  The numbers currently in the CoCoRaHS database are just what I entered as follows:

 

12/9: 0.6" snow/0.03" liquid

12/10:  3.0 snow/1.58" liquid

12/11:  6.8 snow/0.88" liquid

12/12:  3.4" snow/0.16" liquid

         

I guess if one combined the 12/9 snow with the 12/11 snow and skipped the 12/10 snow they could get 7.4".  And it's also interesting to note that if you sum all those liquid totals you get 2.65", and if the missing 3.0" of snow was added to that instead of being added to the snow, then you would have exactly 5.65" of liquid.  I'm not sure if that's what happened, but in case any of the BTV NWS guys are following the thread I figured I'd bring it up.

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