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November 10-12 Major Early Season Winter Storm


Hoosier

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The wave is still out in la la land rotating around an ULL in the pacific so no sampling, yes I'm mentioning it.

Will be interesting to see the eventual track given the E-W nature of the baroclinic zone when the wave comes over the Rockies and if it digs any further south.

 

I'm with ya on the sampling....not for routing sake one way or another...but consensus usually comes whence key ingredients are sampled, then on to the details.  Baro zone looks real fun for the "lucky" ones with this system

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climo and trends definitely suggest this is a miss here, but for the hell of it

 

Detroits top 10 snowstorms on or before November 15th (the #1 stretched into the 16th). There have been a handful of snowstorms, but most were long ago

 

01.) 9.0" - Nov 15/16, 1932 (biggest Nov snowstorm on record)

02.) 6.2" - Nov 8/9, 1921

02.) 6.2" - Nov 15, 1925

04.) 6.0" - Nov 2/3, 1966

05.) 5.7" - Nov 6/7, 1951

05.) 5.7" - Nov 13/14, 1974

07.) 4.2" - Nov 12/13, 1959

08.) 4.1" - Nov 11, 1984

09.) 3.7" - Nov 10/11, 1933

10.) 3.4" - Nov 10, 1892

 

How long did they last on the ground?

 

01.) The 1932 storm left 1"+ snowcover for 9 straight days. An awesome start to a terrible winter (this would end up being the longest continuous stretch of snowcover during the 1932-33 season :yikes:).

02.) The 1921 storm left 1"+ snowcover for 7 straight days.

03.) the 1925 storm changed to rain and was down to a T depth the next day

04.) The 1966 storm left 1"+ snowcover for 5 straight days.

05.) The 1951 storm changed to rain so much of the snow melted, but we clung on to 1"+ snowcover for 4 straight days

06.) The 1974 storm left 1"+ snowcover for 3 straight days

07.) The 1959 storm stayed on the ground 1 day

08.) The 1984 storm stayed on the ground 2 days

09.) The 1933 storm stayed on the ground 1 day

10.) The 1892 storm stayed on the ground for probably 1-2 days

 

Moral of the story? Its just SO early.

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The wave is still out in la la land rotating around an ULL in the pacific so no sampling, yes I'm mentioning it.

Will be interesting to see the eventual track given the E-W nature of the baroclinic zone when the wave comes over the Rockies and if it digs any further south.

 

 

You know winter has arrived when sampling gets mentioned.  :sled:   But yes, it will be a while before it gets into the RAOB network so other methods of sampling will have to suffice until then. 

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Per MPX:

WHAT CAN BE SAID WITH A HIGH DEGREE OF CERTAINTY IS THAT AS

THIS LOW PRES CENTER SHIFTS FROM THE CENTRAL PLAINS TWD THE GREAT

LAKES...THERE WILL BE A SWATH OF AT LEAST 6 INCHES OF SNOW.

ATTM... THAT SWATH IS ALONG THE I-90 CORRIDOR...WITH LESSER

AMOUNTS GOING N TWD THE I-94 CORRIDOR AND S INTO IA. THERE IS

STILL A TREND OF SEEING MODEL SOLUTIONS MOVE THE STORM TRACK

N...AND SLOW DOWN THE STORM TRACK...WHICH MAY MEAN THAT THE

HEAVIER SNOW MAY SHIFT FURTHER N TO NEAR THE MSP METRO. BUT...KEEP

IN MIND THAT IS ONE OF MULTIPLE SOLUTIONS. THAT SAID...THE HOPWRF-

TS...ECMWF...GFS AND GEM HAVE ALL TRENDED SLIGHTLY FURTHER N IN

MODEL RUNS FROM LAST NIGHT THRU TDA...AND THE HOPWRF-TS AND ECMWF

HAVE SHOWN THE GREATEST AMOUNT OF SLOWING OF THE SYSTEM. THE ONSET

OF SNOW LOOKS TO START BY LATE EVE IN SW MN...THEN AFTER MIDNIGHT

IN ERN MN /INCLUDING TWIN CITIES METRO/...THEN CONTINUE INTO SW WI

EARLY MON MRNG. THERE IS GROWING CONFIDENCE THAT BY DAYBREAK MON

MRNG...MUCH OF SRN MN WILL HAVE SNOW ON THE GROUND SO THIS DOES

LOOK TO IMPACT THE MRNG COMMUTES. SNOWFALL THEN LOOKS TO INCREASE

IN INTENSITY AS THE MORNING PROGRESSES...LESSENING INTO THE AFTN

HOURS AS THE LOW PRES CENTER SLINGSHOTS INTO THE GREAT LAKES AREA.

SNOWFALL WILL TAPER OFF MON NIGHT INTO EARLY TUE MRNG...WITH ONLY

SOME SCATTERED FLURRIES LEFT IN ITS WAKE. OVERALL...HIGHEST POPS

ARE IN SRN MN...INTO THE CATEGORICAL RANGE...WITH POPS TRENDING

LOWER GOING N. IN ADDITION...HIGHEST SNOWFALL AMOUNTS...IN THE 6-9

INCH RANGE FOR THE DURATION OF THIS EVENT...ARE HIGHEST AROUND THE

I-90 CORRIDOR WITH LESSER AMOUNTS GOING N. BUT...AGAIN...WITH SUCH

MODEL UNCERTAINTY...THESE AMOUNTS AND LOCATIONS MAY SHIFT OVER THE

NEXT FEW RUNS

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These model runs are driving me insane here in Central MI. some show 1" of snow and some show 9" IMBY. Heck of a first snowstorm to track for the season, need to get back in my snowstorm tracking game fast. Usually in the Nov-Jan timeframe the most northern tracks win out so I'll probably just get an inch or 2.

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These model runs are driving me insane here in Central MI. some show 1" of snow and some show 9" IMBY. Heck of a first snowstorm to track for the season, need to get back in my snowstorm tracking game fast. Usually in the Nov-Jan timeframe the most northern tracks win out so I'll probably just get an inch or 2.

northern tracks win in November, but I disagree...in December and January, especially recently, plenty of times the southern track has won out.
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northern tracks win in November, but I disagree...in December and January, especially recently, plenty of times the southern track has won out.

I usually lose to the north track in nov-dec. but in jan it is kind of a toss up, starts trending south mid jan imo. then most of jan-feb it is south trend ftw lol, subjective on where you live i guess though. definite seasonal trends though.

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a couple of potential twists in the mix. one of which is the Canadian regional starting to go not only more northerly, but also introducing an ice/rain mix to the southern end of this storm, which may add a lot of complications to QPF forecasts. not saying i totally believe it, given how cold this air mass heading into MN and WI will be. but it is something to maybe think about a bit. especially since it puts the potentially heavy snow back towards i-94.

 

http://weather.gc.ca/data/prog/regional/2014110718/2014110718_054_R1_north@america_I_QPFTYPES_nwac@pn@003_054.png

 

http://weather.gc.ca/data/prog/regional/2014110718/2014110718_054_R1_north@america_I_4PAN_QPFTYPES@006_054.jpg

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Snippet from afternoon disco from IWX. Potential for accumulating snow along the IN/MI state line? I'm not buying it, unless the forecaster is talking about very light accumulations.

 

OF NOTE WILL BE THE ARRIVAL OF A SHARPLY COLDER AIRMASS BY TUE
OF WHICH LOOKS TO PERSIST WELL THROUGH AT LEAST DY10 AND FNTL WAVE
LIFTING UP ACRS THE OH VALLEY. THERMAL PROFILES TOUGH TO CALL EARLY
TUE PENDING EXACT LOW TRACK AND ASSOCD SHARP BAROCLINIC ZONE
PLACEMENT HWVR PRIOR SHRA/SHSN MENTION STILL HOLDS W/POTENTIAL FOR
ACCUMULATING SNOWFALL STILL HIGH ACRS NW/NRN THIRD IN PROXIMITY TO
STRONGEST FGEN SIGNAL AND FASTER LL CAA ONSET. 
:unsure:

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