BuffaloWeather Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 NCDC has snowfall data for Buffalo going back to 1884. Here's their top 5 least snowiest seasons on record. 22.4" in 1889-90 25.0" in 1918-19 36.7" in 2011-12 39.8" in 1921-22 39.9" in 1947-48 I don't count those first two because Buffalo changed their recording stations from the waterfront to the airport in 1940. So technically 11-12 is the lowest snowfall ever recorded at KBUF. http://www.erh.noaa.gov/buf/climate/buf_snow40s.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I don't count those first two because Buffalo changed their recording stations from the waterfront to the airport in 1940. So technically 11-12 is the lowest snowfall ever recorded at KBUF. http://www.erh.noaa.gov/buf/climate/buf_snow40s.htm Official measuring sites change all the time though (well not all the time but most cities have seen their official reporting locations change throughout the years). It'd really limit the climate record if older data was ignored just because it came from a different site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago WX Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Official measuring sites change all the time though (well not all the time but most cities have seen their official reporting locations change throughout the years). It'd really limit the climate record if older data was ignored just because it came from a different site. Yep. So, we'll call 2011-12 the lowest on record for the airport era in Buffalo. But speaking of longterm climate records, there's probably no bigger cluster---- than Chicago. So many site changes from the beginning up to MDW. And then there's the move to ORD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Yep. So, we'll call 2011-12 the lowest on record for the airport era in Buffalo. But speaking of longterm climate records, there's probably no bigger cluster---- than Chicago. So many site changes from the beginning up to MDW. And then there's the move to ORD... Yeah there's been like 12 for Chicago I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago WX Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Yeah there's been like 12 for Chicago I think 13, technically...but that's counting 4 different locations at O'Hare. http://www.crh.noaa.gov/lot/?n=history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Official measuring sites change all the time though (well not all the time but most cities have seen their official reporting locations change throughout the years). It'd really limit the climate record if older data was ignored just because it came from a different site. I've never realized this at all. Why do they change all the time? I thought most are just recorded whereever the airport is? I wish the BUF NWS would move 5 miles south. They would be at 100 inches this year instead of 30. If they moved just 5 miles south the average per year snowfall would increase be 20-40 inches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 13, technically...but that's counting 4 different locations at O'Hare. http://www.crh.noaa.gov/lot/?n=history That is mind boggling to me. Will they be staying at O'hare for the long term now or move again? Are most cities like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wisconsinwx Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 It looks to be warm and boring for the next couple days followed by cool/cold and boring. Punt til January (or at least after Christmas)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 NCDC has snowfall data for Buffalo going back to 1884. Here's their top 5 least snowiest seasons on record. 22.4" in 1889-90 25.0" in 1918-19 36.7" in 2011-12 39.8" in 1921-22 39.9" in 1947-48 Thanks! I figured they did, I just didnt have time to look it up when I posted that. And I see the top 2 winters are two of the ones I was thinking of when I mentioned a few of the notoriously snowless winters from the 1880s-1940s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 13, technically...but that's counting 4 different locations at O'Hare. http://www.crh.noaa.gov/lot/?n=history wow lol. For Detroit... From Nov 1, 1870 to Dec 31, 1933, obs were taken at various locations in downtown Detroit. I think mostly near present-day Campus Martius (which is the near heart of downtown) but Im a little sketchy on exactly how many moves there were lol. Then Jan 1, 1934 thru Mar 31, 1966 obs were done at Detroit City Airport, then April 1, 1966 to present at Detroit Metro Airport. http://www.crh.noaa.gov/images/dtx/dtxHistory2.pdf Now, there may have been several small moves within DET or DTW, but I doubt that really affected anything. So any miniscule station variances aside, there have been 3 main geographic locations obs have been taken for Detroit since records began 1870-1933 - downtown Detroit 1934-1966 - northeast Detroit 1966-present - southwest suburb of Detroit (Romulus, MI) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 wow lol. For Detroit... From Nov 1, 1870 to Dec 31, 1933, obs were taken at various locations in downtown Detroit. I think mostly near present-day Campus Martius (which is the near heart of downtown) but Im a little sketchy on exactly how many moves there were lol. Then Jan 1, 1934 thru Mar 31, 1966 obs were done at Detroit City Airport, then April 1, 1966 to present at Detroit Metro Airport. http://www.crh.noaa.gov/images/dtx/dtxHistory2.pdf Now, there may have been several small moves within DET or DTW, but I doubt that really affected anything. So any miniscule station variances aside, there have been 3 main geographic locations obs have been taken for Detroit since records began 1870-1933 - downtown Detroit 1934-1966 - northeast Detroit 1966-present - southwest suburb of Detroit (Romulus, MI) A few mile moves around this area can sometimes be the difference between a 100 inch season and a 150 inch season. That is why shifting the recording station so much is questionable. You can never get accurate numbers and data if you do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 That is mind boggling to me. Will they be staying at O'hare for the long term now or move again? Are most cities like this? That isn't surprising at all. Major commercial airports didn't really come into being until after World War II, which is when a lot of weather stations set up shop at the airports. The dawn of the jet age and growing aviation in the 60s and 70s saw cities needing to build new, larger airports, and so the climate reporting sites went with them. For many places, the past 50 or 60 years have seen relatively stable climate locations. Many of those changes are negligible, if a building on the airport property where measurements were taken was torn down and a new one built beside it, that's a reporting location change, but hardly noteworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago WX Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Indianapolis has a pretty "good or steady" observation history. Prior to the airport observations becoming official (pre-1943), the sites were in downtown...in a relatively small area. Pretty neat history of Indy observations: http://mrcc.sws.uiuc.edu/FORTS/histories/IN_Indianapolis_Conner.pdf Timeline of the IND NWS: http://www.crh.noaa.gov/ind/?n=timeline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 A few mile moves around this area can sometimes be the difference between a 100 inch season and a 150 inch season. That is why shifting the recording station so much is questionable. You can never get accurate numbers and data if you do this. Its different in a LES belt, esp Buffalo. Remember too a lot of airports/climate sites have snow observers that measure snow in a different location than the actual airport weather station. Most are at the airport or within a few miles of it, but some are 5 miles or more. Denvers snowfall is measured 13 miles from DEN airport! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geos Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 It was interesting reading the last couple dozen posts on how observation stations have moved about since city records began. On another note... Milder air this time of year almost always translates to clouds and fog and the last 9-10 days have been no exception. Rather have below freezing temps, sun, and bare ground then what it's been lately! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 It was interesting reading the last couple dozen posts on how observation stations have moved about since city records began. On another note... Milder air this time of year almost always translates to clouds and fog and the last 9-10 days have been no exception. Rather have below freezing temps, sun, and bare ground then what it's been lately! Clouds have gotten old but I'll take the milder feel over cold with bare ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWXwx Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Punt until Christmas. This could end up being my best call ever.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago WX Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Might not be a bigger train wreck than Bears-Saints tonight. Already two turnovers in the first 2 minutes of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo6899 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Might not be a bigger train wreck than Bears-Saints tonight. Already two turnovers in the first 2 minutes of the game.Lol and the mistakes continue. Just hope the bears continue the scrappy play next week vs the lions. It would be nice for Detroit to get a home game in the playoffs. Regardless if you win your division, a 6-10 or w/e team should never be able to make the playoffs over a 10-6 or better team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbertfly Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 If you were to tell me in July that by December 16th you will have seen flakes fly 15 times and have an average temp map like this.....I would have been pretty psyched about the prospects for some pre-Christmas snowpack for the mood and the kids.... what a weird season so far lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartyOn Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Really not digging the rest of the week, looks like some mid-upper 30s under partly sunny skies. Still looks Zzzz for wintery weather. This is one of the worst Decembers we have had in at least a few years. The past week has seemed like a perpetual late Fall. Noticing the LR gets active and somewhat cold but a few rainy cutters look in store. Hopefully the New Year ushers in some good wintery weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeye Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Damn I want to banter and b**ch so bad but I promised I wouldn't until January 1st. If white armageddon isn't on our doorstep on New Year's Day, I'm trolling like a weenie on a bad acid trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pondo1000 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Damn I want to banter and b**ch so bad but I promised I wouldn't until January 1st. If white armageddon isn't on our doorstep on New Year's Day, I'm trolling like a weenie on a bad acid trip. I'll make room for you on my wagon Buck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 People getting antsy. We need a decent widespread synoptic snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pondo1000 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Ahhhh,nothing like a raw, rainy December day to put you in the holiday spirit! Thanks Mother Nature, go 'eff yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Really not digging the rest of the week, looks like some mid-upper 30s under partly sunny skies. Still looks Zzzz for wintery weather. This is one of the worst Decembers we have had in at least a few years. The past week has seemed like a perpetual late Fall. Noticing the LR gets active and somewhat cold but a few rainy cutters look in store. Hopefully the New Year ushers in some good wintery weather.Actually the first half of December has been nowhere near as warm as the first half of December 2011 or 2012 (both 2012 and 2014 no measurable snow to this point) so id wait to see what the pattern brings the next few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KokomoWX Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 No more threads started by "illinois" this winter. Not that I'd say he is a jinx but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 No more threads started by "illinois" this winter. Not that I'd say he is a jinx but... To be fair, Alek told him to start this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-K Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 To be fair, Alek told him to start this one. i just wanted all the boring talk out of the medium/long range thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-K Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 People getting antsy. We need a decent widespread synoptic snow. called this as well. when we enter january without a widespread synoptic event, people are going to get crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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