snowman21 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Why do you think they chose CPK as an ASOS years ago? And about BDL.. Here's the problem with that.. Since some genius determined to choose that as the official site in N CT.. The media uses that as a basis for all wx. For example Ryan forecasts 92 on Sunday...,so everyone watches that and assumes it will be in the 90's . Realizing of course that many folks do not live in the hills where it's cooler..why should the hottest point in all of NCT be used as the place where the official obs come from when it doesn't represent 95% of it's geographic region? Chesapeake Regional Airport is why there's an ASOS there. Every airport is required to have real time weather observations for air traffic safety, and CPK is no exception. I believe it's an FAA requirement. As far as BDL goes, I think the old CT WBO pre-NWS consolidation/modernization used to be at BDL, so why wouldn't they keep official records there? The temperature/climate doesn't vary that much across inland CT, except for the NW hills of course which is in its own climate division. BDL is representative of inland CT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Chesapeake Regional Airport is why there's an ASOS there. Every airport is required to have real time weather observations for air traffic safety, and CPK is no exception. I believe it's an FAA requirement. As far as BDL goes, I think the old CT WBO pre-NWS consolidation/modernization used to be at BDL, so why wouldn't they keep official records there? The temperature/climate doesn't vary that much across inland CT, except for the NW hills of course which is in its own climate division. BDL is representative of inland CT. I don't agree with your last statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Chesapeake Regional Airport is why there's an ASOS there. Every airport is required to have real time weather observations for air traffic safety, and CPK is no exception. I believe it's an FAA requirement. As far as BDL goes, I think the old CT WBO pre-NWS consolidation/modernization used to be at BDL, so why wouldn't they keep official records there? The temperature/climate doesn't vary that much across inland CT, except for the NW hills of course which is in its own climate division. BDL is representative of inland CT. yes the records between West Hartford and BDL are within tenths of each other, I would say the days like the other day, zero wind, hhh, is when bDL is higher than most but generally very close.it does suck there are no official stations in the hills but the coop stations are a good source and some Madis home stations are certainly well represented Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 I don't agree with your last statement. last 4 years of data WEST HARTFORD 51.8 HARTFORD BRADLEY INTL AP 52.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman21 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I don't agree with your last statement. How do you define a homogenous climate? I'm looking at the average August high temperatures across all 15 inland Connecticut climate stations (ASOS + coop). If you drop the warmest and coolest averages, the spread between the remaining 13 stations is 2.5 degrees. That's a pretty tight range over that many stations and suggests that they all live in the same climate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 last 4 years of data WEST HARTFORD 51.8 HARTFORD BRADLEY INTL AP 52.0 Does BDL or IJD for that matter, represent your area?So an airport in an otherwise rural town is actually warmer than a large concrete jungle city which has massive infrastructure , shopping malls etc? Hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 it does bug me when wxmen say Ct hit 90 or 0 today for the 20th time, 99% of the geography didn't but a tarmac did, its almost a misrepresentation of the state not a representation but it is what it is, just a quirk of mine. Well most of us on here are biased about warm temperatures too. We find issue with spots that run warm, myself included haha. We love SLK but that's also not representative of northern NY as it's too cold. Stations are in the valleys though...I mean ALB hitting 90F may mean the bulk of the area was 86-89F for a high, but who cares? It was hot out. BTV in the valley being warm too and that's used as the VT official temp a lot of times. I still don't buy the whole Tarmac being hot idea as much...usually the dews are lower, the air drier. It's field climo vs wooded area climo. I bet if BDL hits 90F, that is representative of the larger CT valley, within 3 degrees or less. No one in downtown HFD is going to care if they say it's 90F in CT while they are *only* 88F. Meanwhile I know at my parents cabin, that in Woodstock it may only hit 82F in the woods. But I bet if we were in a field it would be much different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Does BDL or IJD for that matter, represent your area? So an airport in an otherwise rural town is actually warmer than a large concrete jungle city which has massive infrastructure , shopping malls etc? Hmmm It really doesn't matter, if BDL didn't hit 90 people would find some other site in CT to talk about that hit 90 just to say it reached 90 that day. It's the way things work. You should know, always the extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 We've had this argument like 15 other times..lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nittany88 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 But why is an airport any more accurate than a backyard in Anytown, USA? Do you want to know why they're at airports? Because its the FAA. And its the single most affected means of transportation by weather. Plus everything everybody else said above (siting, etc...). Well most of us on here are biased about warm temperatures too. We find issue with spots that run warm, myself included haha. We love SLK but that's also not representative of northern NY as it's too cold. Stations are in the valleys though...I mean ALB hitting 90F may mean the bulk of the area was 86-89F for a high, but who cares? It was hot out. BTV in the valley being warm too and that's used as the VT official temp a lot of times. I still don't buy the whole Tarmac being hot idea as much...usually the dews are lower, the air drier. It's field climo vs wooded area climo. I bet if BDL hits 90F, that is representative of the larger CT valley, within 3 degrees or less. No one in downtown HFD is going to care if they say it's 90F in CT while they are *only* 88F. Meanwhile I know at my parents cabin, that in Woodstock it may only hit 82F in the woods. But I bet if we were in a field it would be much different. And most people live in the valleys too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 We've had this argument like 15 other times..lol. But this has a different thread title! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damage In Tolland Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I think the point to take from all this diatribe today is that the ASOS sitings are not ideal and should be considered by the govt to be moved. Maybe the powers that be that read this can bring this to them and get this problem fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 That is not the take home point by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Chesapeake Regional Airport is why there's an ASOS there. Every airport is required to have real time weather observations for air traffic safety, and CPK is no exception. I believe it's an FAA requirement. As far as BDL goes, I think the old CT WBO pre-NWS consolidation/modernization used to be at BDL, so why wouldn't they keep official records there? The temperature/climate doesn't vary that much across inland CT, except for the NW hills of course which is in its own climate division. BDL is representative of inland CT. By CPK he means Central Park. For some reason many here hate to use NYC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrite Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 That is not the take home point by any means.Somehow every thread boils down to his dews being more representative than ASOS sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Somehow every thread boils down to his dews being more representative than ASOS sites.DEW he feel like I DEW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceanStWx Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I think the point to take from all this diatribe today is that the ASOS sitings are not ideal and should be considered by the govt to be moved. Maybe the powers that be that read this can bring this to them and get this problem fixed They are pretty ideal for the FAA, so I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 That is not the take home point by any means.my take,BVT would be the last place in NVT a winter lover would want to live (wxwise) great town otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastalWx Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 We generally have a lot of observing stations so who really cares if BOS or another place near the water doesn't represent the entire area. Look at CT. You have BDL and HFD. You can get a good idea reading between the lines. Anyways, this thread was about BTV and warmth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkyfork Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 lol. it's just some asos in a drive through state. if you want to debate about poor asos placement look at knyc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewbeer Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 And most people live in the valleys too. This. More people live closer to the valley bottoms than the hill tops. Weather forecasts are developed for where people live, not where they don't live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowman21 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 This. More people live closer to the valley bottoms than the hill tops. Weather forecasts are developed for where people live, not where they don't live. Most people in Connecticut live below 500 feet. I wonder how many in the northern New England states live at higher elevations since the average elevation there is probably quite a bit higher than here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Most people in Connecticut live below 500 feet. I wonder how many in the northern New England states live at higher elevations since the average elevation there is probably quite a bit higher than here.phew made is at 515. River valleys are more populated for obvious historical economic reasons, the same as deep harbor coastal areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 my take,BVT would be the last place in NVT a winter lover would want to live (wxwise) great town otherwise Well just because it has positive departures doesn't mean it's a bad place, lol. I loved living there. It's valley living like anywhere...they still get 82" of snow though, do good with winds, good WINDEX squalls, ice storms with northerly drainage flow last last winter, etc. But yeah there are much better winter spots even 5-10 miles east. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 That's sort of what I'm wondering...VT used to be clear cut, and so did the Champlain Valley. Most of VT's forests are really young (thus why there are more moose in NH/ME), and I wonder if increased trees in that area along with housing has capped some of the radiating potential? But I'm not sure what scale has that affect, if the runways are all open fields, does it matter if a lot of trees have gone up in the past 25-50 years a mile away? A rabbit trail, but I'd suggest this runs counter to moose biology, as the critters find the most/best food in forest stands 15 years old or younger - the trees either within reach or skinny enough that the moose can "walk" them down and get the foliage. The explosion in Maine's moose population was fueled largely by the young stands coming back in clearcuts made in response to the 70s-early 80s spruce budworm epidemic. I can think of two possible reasons (and there are others) why the moose pops are higher in ME/NH. First is that a much larger proportion in each state escaped conversion to agriculture, compared to VT. Maine never got much below 70% forest, and I think NH stopped at about the 50-50 point. Wasn't VT down to 25-30% sometime in the 1800s? Reason #2 is the relativley low deer populations in the northern portions of NH/Maine. Nearly all deer are infected with a meningeal parasite to which they are tolerant but which can be lethal to moose and caribou. The alternate hosts of this parasite are tiny snails which the cervids ingest along with foliage. The failure of the two attempts to reintroduce caribou in Maine can mostly be traced to this parasite. However, I wonder if NNE moose are developing some resistance to this critter, as moose numbers are at (recent) historic highs and the number of animals with "moose sickness" appear to be much lower than 30-40 years ago. (Wish the same would happen with moose ticks!) Most people in Connecticut live below 500 feet. I wonder how many in the northern New England states live at higher elevations since the average elevation there is probably quite a bit higher than here. I'd guess that more than half of Maine's population lives at 500' or lower, and 90% at 1,000' or below. The state has its share of mountains, but as a proportion of overall area, the mountains are considerably less prevalent than in VT/NH. And responding to another post (and assuming that "CPK" meant "NYC"), maybe it's because Central Park had continuous data back thru 1871 and it was thought useful to continue that recording with modern equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Thanks for the moose clarity Tamarack. I knew the moose population decline was due to the clear cutting for agriculture in the 1800s, as yes, VT was like 80% cleared at least in the lower elevations at one point. I've seen photos of the Stowe area that are so funny because there like isn't a tree standing in the valley where town is, but the mountain is all forested. Now there are ski trails cut on the mountain, but tons of trees in the valley. I actually wonder how much colder this area was at night when it was one giant field lol. We radiate pretty well as it is, but I would imagine it would've been better as one big field of several square miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApacheTrout Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 What a fantastic thread. I was away for two days, and now, with a martini in hand, find a wonderfully rich discussion of weather in my backyard. Kudos to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted August 30, 2014 Author Share Posted August 30, 2014 What a fantastic thread. I was away for two days, and now, with a martini in hand, find a wonderfully rich discussion of weather in my backyard. Kudos to all.thanks,it's always great to have these discussions with the wealth of local knowledge available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 These hot spells are where BTV really goes to town on the positive departures. The 11pm ob shows it's still 74F at BTV and no drop over the past couple hours with a steady south wind. They had a low of 69F last night with south winds, while the average low is like 55-56. They may not fall out of the 70s tonight like Miami. Meanwhile, out here in the mountain valleys it's 11F colder with 63F currently as we go calm right when the sun drops. We will still have an above normal night, but the departure will be like half of what BTV puts up. That nocturnal low level jet that develops on south flow just furnaces BTV with like +15 departure low temps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Development a mile away from the airport can have an affect when we are talking about microclimate...which is of course important for radiational cooling. Increased development a mile away will cause differential heating...which will make it harder to calm the winds at night. Someone would probably have to do a true scientific study to accurately measure the magnitude of these effects, but they do exist. I know there was a study done semi-recently for Dulles Airport west of DC...and the winds there now at night are not as calm as 30 years ago due to development around the airport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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