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Central/Western Medium-Long Range Discussion


andyhb
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Pretty impressive agreement between ECMWF, CMC, and GFS. Differ on amplitude and timing, but the general consensus shows a severe weather event over the same general area for Sunday. Impressive for a week out. Not sure who is more potent: the GFS or the ECMWF. GFS more unstable, ECMWF by far the stronger between the two wrt shear profiles. 70 knot deep layer shear and 35-45 knot 0-1km shear on the ECMWF. Definitely one to watch, and one that has some synoptic backing for sure. Would think the dry line sets up along I-35 if things hold, but with how strong the synoptics are it could push near Tulsa.

Seems to me that this is a pattern offering higher predictability. It doesn't seem like there is much to offer in terms of downstream/eastern amplification. The GEFS 6-8 day analogue forecast:

LR.png.6faa491f9b07371cacf8c0424a6b490b.png

At least 10 Svr reports

 

PRTORNC01_gefsF168.png.0f2e0d45b7bcf7c2f9eb43fe80bc9b81.png

 

At least 1 tornado

 

PRSIGTC01_gefsF168.png.38ebdf0515953f0f5966e4a769ca5333.png

 

At least 1 sig tor.

 

Seems to me that models should have a good handle on this one.

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12 minutes ago, monsoonman1 said:

12z GFS has trough after trough swinging through the middle of the country from this weekend on, which is about all we can ask for right now. 

I'd say a tad earlier in the season than ideal for such an active pattern. Much like last year, might run into a problem with not enough moisture recovery between systems, although as it stands right now (one system next Sunday-Monday and then another the following Friday-Saturday) it shouldn't be as much of an issue. I know I've said it before, but it sure would be nice to get a look like that from late April through May one of these years.

One thing that the last few years have taught me is that with any given early season setup, actual dewpoint value doesn't matter as much as long as LCL is not too high (not too much of a difference between dewpoint and temperature) and the upper levels are sufficiently cold. The setups in late March-early April '17 that underwhelmed had other issues besides moisture. You get ideal shear profiles and cold upper levels, and marginal-looking surfaced T/Td can get the job done (3/15/16, 2/28/17).

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4 hours ago, CheeselandSkies said:

I'd say a tad earlier in the season than ideal for such an active pattern. Much like last year, might run into a problem with not enough moisture recovery between systems, although as it stands right now (one system next Sunday-Monday and then another the following Friday-Saturday) it shouldn't be as much of an issue. I know I've said it before, but it sure would be nice to get a look like that from late April through May one of these years.

One thing that the last few years have taught me is that with any given early season setup, actual dewpoint value doesn't matter as much as long as LCL is not too high (not too much of a difference between dewpoint and temperature) and the upper levels are sufficiently cold. The setups in late March-early April '17 that underwhelmed had other issues besides moisture. You get ideal shear profiles and cold upper levels, and marginal-looking surfaced T/Td can get the job done (3/15/16, 2/28/17).

I don't know about moisture recovery not being an issue with the upcoming systems. The 12z Euro looks awful tame now with 60F dews staying south of the Red River on Sunday and struggling to reach into Arkansas on Monday. The overall pattern is too messy, especially for March, given such a large trough over eastern North America. With relatively small systems reoccurring in a fast-flow pattern, there isn't much reason to believe there will be substantial moisture recovery. More of a robust south/southeasterly wind trajectory over the southern Plains/lower Mississippi Valley is needed than what is progged with the expected pattern. If it was later in the season, it wouldn't take as much to moisten the warm sector, but we're only in mid-March and next week doesn't look too promising. I wouldn't be overly concerned though, as it is barely meteorological spring and not even the spring equinox yet.

I wouldn't rule out some spotty severe next week and maybe the evolution of one or two of the systems will improve, but it definitely does not look like an outbreak setup and doesn't even look like a scenario for anything impressive for mid-March standards.

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Until this blocking pattern over eastern North America breaks down I’m not excited about early season severe in the Plains. Moisture will continually be a problem in that setup with a trough parked on the east coast and northerly flow over the gulf.

GFS has hints of the blocking holding on all the way to the end of the run, so we’ll see. I’m highly skeptical of the ERTAF forecast for above normal tornado activity in the southern plains and Midwest for next week.

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45 minutes ago, CheeselandSkies said:

Recent GFS runs would support some degree of severe threat in the southern/central Plains next Sunday, the 25th. Warm sector SRH and EHI took a big jump from the 00z to the 06z run, popping some impressive analogs. Remains to be seen if it has legs, but it's the next thing to watch.

Something to watch, although the GFS has been wildly inconsistent on placement/magnitude of potential threats (to be expected from this range I guess). Euro is slower with the trough and would shift any potential focus to Monday and beyond.

ETA: On closer inspection even with the slower trough the Euro would still imply at least some severe threat in Texas/southern Oklahoma for Sunday.

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12Z GFS solution still maintains a fairly robust severe threat for next Sunday along the I-35 corridor in OK/southern KS.

Although, it is rather disconcerting to see the surface low and its associated warm sector basically get crushed between one cold air mass to its east and another to its northwest, instead of continuing to deepen as it lifts towards the upper Midwest on Monday.

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7 hours ago, CheeselandSkies said:

12Z GFS solution still maintains a fairly robust severe threat for next Sunday along the I-35 corridor in OK/southern KS.

Although, it is rather disconcerting to see the surface low and its associated warm sector basically get crushed between one cold air mass to its east and another to its northwest, instead of continuing to deepen as it lifts towards the upper Midwest on Monday.

Unfortunately I am most confident in that massive northeastern ridging, given model forecasts and the continuing effects of the Feb SSW. But even so, the GFS and its ensemble do paint an elevated severe risk day. I can’t help but be in love with the GFS ensemble mean for Sunday. FEC75A45-5F29-445B-8013-EA7BE2C06E86.thumb.png.fcfabb1a3d90a60ddb11a36d48465b5f.png

 

The Euro is a different story. We will see - I am not confident the GFS will win here, but I do like the look of the ensemble mean. 

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32 minutes ago, bjc0303 said:

Unfortunately I am most confident in that massive northeastern ridging, given model forecasts and the continuing effects of the Feb SSW. But even so, the GFS and its ensemble do paint an elevated severe risk day. I can’t help but be in love with the GFS ensemble mean for Sunday. imageproxy.php?img=&key=20fe2b78d4e66dffFEC75A45-5F29-445B-8013-EA7BE2C06E86.thumb.png.fcfabb1a3d90a60ddb11a36d48465b5f.png

 

The Euro is a different story. We will see - I am not confident the GFS will win here, but I do like the look of the ensemble mean. 

Ugh. WHEN is it going to wane?

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Given the differences between the GFS and euro it's a fairly low confidence forecast for now. But even the euro would feature a couple days of at least slight-risk caliber severe chances, obviously with various caveats and conditions. Whereas the GFS shows a fairly robust, but imperfect, setup along the "classic" I-35 corridor on sunday.

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00z euro has taken a dramatic step towards the GFS in my opinion. Similar boundary/low placement and everything for Sunday. GFS ensemble is really locking in on Sunday and with Euro agreement I’d say there’s a chance at a broad 15% day 5 for west OK. Euro slightly less on moisture but looks to be higher on 0-1 km bulk shear and instability which is the most interesting bit  

 

Edit: I’d have to analyze the ECMWF ensemble before making a definitive statement there. 

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