The ideal New England winter home (for maximum snow experience)

[ORH_wxman]

bump.

 

 

Double bump - would love one as well!

 

 

A good one of these does not exist that I am aware of. I've seen a few, but they are very coarse and downright inaccurate in certain areas.

[tamarack]

A good one of these does not exist that I am aware of. I've seen a few, but they are very coarse and downright inaccurate in certain areas.

 

And I suspect it will remain either nonexistent or inaccurate, due to paucity of reporting locations and (possibly) indifferent measurements at some of those few - once-a-day or, worse, change in snow depth equals new snowfall.  This is especially the case for Maine north and west of BGR.

[dryslot]

bump.

 

Best i have for here is this one.............

 

[ORH_wxman]

Best i have for here is this one.............

 

Maines Avg Snowfall.jpg

 

And even that one is a bit of a lowball in the SW foothills area of Bridgeton/Fryberg region. It also probably doesn't capture the higher totals on the summits...but most maps have a hard time doign that.

[powderfreak]

A good one of these does not exist that I am aware of. I've seen a few, but they are very coarse and downright inaccurate in certain areas.

I've heard BTV is working on a detailed snowfall map for their area...they just put out a more detailed precip map, but I think with all the CoCoRAHS reports and better understanding of the local micro-climates they might be able to come out with a good snowfall map.

But BTV gets a lot more data to work with as a whole in their hills than GYX does I'm sure. The issue for me will be using MMNV1 as 4,000ft snowfall...the lower elevation stations like Underhill and Waterbury will make it look like there is only a small increase in 3,000ft of elevation by diligent measuring down low, while the summit "what lands in the can" method will cause the gradient to be mis-interpreted.

[dryslot]

And even that one is a bit of a lowball in the SW foothills area of Bridgeton/Fryberg region. It also probably doesn't capture the higher totals on the summits...but most maps have a hard time doign that.

I agree, It's rough in those areas for accurately giving avg's low is absolutely correct just from my first hand experiences in those areas in the winter

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tamarack]

And even that one is a bit of a lowball in the SW foothills area of Bridgeton/Fryberg region. It also probably doesn't capture the higher totals on the summits...but most maps have a hard time doign that.

 

And the modest snowfall in Aroostook N and W of CAR is bogus, at least based on my 10 years working in that region plus occasional working visits in winters since then.  Most of that area is at 1,000-1,500' and while it's too far west for some coastals, it does much better on marginal-temp events and on small storms going down the St. Lawrence, plus a bit of upslope which is nearly absent farther east.

 

Had to laugh at MBY lying just to the wrong side of the 80" line, while Farmington's 90" is but 6 miles away.  Unfortunately, the New Sharon coop is apparently a once-a-day measurement, and since my records began in 98-99, that coop has come in 11" under Farmington's and 8.5" below my numbers.

[ORH_wxman]

And the modest snowfall in Aroostook N and W of CAR is bogus, at least based on my 10 years working in that region plus occasional working visits in winters since then.  Most of that area is at 1,000-1,500' and while it's too far west for some coastals, it does much better on marginal-temp events and on small storms going down the St. Lawrence, plus a bit of upslope which is nearly absent farther east.

 

Had to laugh at MBY lying just to the wrong side of the 80" line, while Farmington's 90" is but 6 miles away.  Unfortunately, the New Sharon coop is apparently a once-a-day measurement, and since my records began in 98-99, that coop has come in 11" under Farmington's and 8.5" below my numbers.

 

 

That's always an issue when comparing coops...some will measure right when an event ends or multiple times during one event...while others just do a single measurement at the same exact time every day....obviously the latter will be biased low compared to the other methods. Yet, they will all get recorded and thrown into the same dataset.

 

Unfortunately, the best we can do is to try and untangle the heterogenous nature of the data with local knowledge of climo, common sense, and some comparison to coops with "known" pristine snowfall data whenever they are available. I usually make note of the coops that will report snowfall in the middle of an event or very shortly after an event ends. Those tend to be more reliable.

[Baroclinic Zone]

And even that one is a bit of a lowball in the SW foothills area of Bridgeton/Fryberg region. It also probably doesn't capture the higher totals on the summits...but most maps have a hard time doign that.

 

Been up there with 5' on the ground.  Unreal how much snow can fall there at times.  Other years it's a famine.

[powderfreak]

I usually make note of the coops that will report snowfall in the middle of an event or very shortly after an event ends. Those tend to be more reliable.

Yeah those that measure right after the snow or during the storm are always preferable.

I like how JSpin has been ing doing his reports now with his web cam...he's very consistent in his 6-12hr measurements and clears, then adds an image of the final snow depth for reference. Like this was from the mid-March storm which had big QPF (like 1.5" for 12" of snow) followed by a little fluff...but the board clearing total was 15.0" and then he added the pic of the settled storm depth for comparison:

If only we had more great sites out there with so much info haha. I give JSpin a lot of credit, I just don't have the dedication for being so diligent.

[dryslot]

And the modest snowfall in Aroostook N and W of CAR is bogus, at least based on my 10 years working in that region plus occasional working visits in winters since then.  Most of that area is at 1,000-1,500' and while it's too far west for some coastals, it does much better on marginal-temp events and on small storms going down the St. Lawrence, plus a bit of upslope which is nearly absent farther east.

 

Had to laugh at MBY lying just to the wrong side of the 80" line, while Farmington's 90" is but 6 miles away.  Unfortunately, the New Sharon coop is apparently a once-a-day measurement, and since my records began in 98-99, that coop has come in 11" under Farmington's and 8.5" below my numbers.

 

They have to place the line somewhere....................lol

[mreaves]

And the modest snowfall in Aroostook N and W of CAR is bogus, at least based on my 10 years working in that region plus occasional working visits in winters since then.  Most of that area is at 1,000-1,500' and while it's too far west for some coastals, it does much better on marginal-temp events and on small storms going down the St. Lawrence, plus a bit of upslope which is nearly absent farther east.

 

Had to laugh at MBY lying just to the wrong side of the 80" line, while Farmington's 90" is but 6 miles away.  Unfortunately, the New Sharon coop is apparently a once-a-day measurement, and since my records began in 98-99, that coop has come in 11" under Farmington's and 8.5" below my numbers.

 

 

I agree, It's rough in those areas for accurately giving avg's low is absolutely correct just from my first hand experiences in those areas in the winter

Sent from my iPhone

 

 

That's always an issue when comparing coops...some will measure right when an event ends or multiple times during one event...while others just do a single measurement at the same exact time every day....obviously the latter will be biased low compared to the other methods. Yet, they will all get recorded and thrown into the same dataset.

 

Unfortunately, the best we can do is to try and untangle the heterogenous nature of the data with local knowledge of climo, common sense, and some comparison to coops with "known" pristine snowfall data whenever they are available. I usually make note of the coops that will report snowfall in the middle of an event or very shortly after an event ends. Those tend to be more reliable.

One thing we can agree on though is that it is probably all OceanStWX and Eksters' fault

[dryslot]

One thing we can agree on though is that it is probably all OceanStWX and Eksters' fault

 

If we blame Mike & Chris it will give the others a break this go round.............

[moneypitmike]

Best i have for here is this one.............

 

Maines Avg Snowfall.jpg

 

Thanks, Jeff--that's helpful even with the limitations that have been voiced here.

 

I do wish this would extend into NH with more detail.

[dryslot]

Thanks, Jeff--that's helpful even with the limitations that have been voiced here.

 

I do wish this would extend into NH with more detail.

 

No prob Mike, I know in my area its pretty accurate but its not doing the foothills and NW area as much but does give you an idea that those areas do see higher avgs

[moneypitmike]

No prob Mike, I know in my area its pretty accurate but its not doing the foothills and NW area as much but does give you an idea that those areas do see higher avgs

 

 

I look at that map and think about the land we had owned in Bethel with the thought of building up there.  Instead, we had a daughter.  lol

[dryslot]

I look at that map and think about the land we had owned in Bethel with the thought of building up there.  Instead, we had a daughter.  lol

 

I am sure you're happy to have your daughter over the above avg snowfall................

[ORH_wxman]

I look at that map and think about the land we had owned in Bethel with the thought of building up there.  Instead, we had a daughter.  lol

 

 

Awesome area...right near SR. Just feet and feet of snow on the ground in winter.

[moneypitmike]

I am sure you're happy to have your daughter over the above avg snowfall................

 

LOL--indeed.

 

Awesome area...right near SR. Just feet and feet of snow on the ground in winter.

 

Now I only dream of it.

 

Hopefully we'll find some decent amounts in NH as that's where we're leaning toward now as it's closer.  Jackson/Bartlett toward Crawford Notch area.  It seems Bartlett gets better snow as you head toward the western part of town toward the notch compared to other areas of Bartlett closer to North Conway.  Perhaps that area (along with Hart's Location) managed to get some blowing off the higher elevation literally in the backyard on winds from any direction other than east. 

[ORH_wxman]

LOL--indeed.

 

 

Now I only dream of it.

 

Hopefully we'll find some decent amounts in NH as that's where we're leaning toward now as it's closer.  Jackson/Bartlett toward Crawford Notch area.  It seems Bartlett gets better snow as you head toward the western part of town toward the notch compared to other areas of Bartlett closer to North Conway.  Perhaps that area (along with Hart's Location) managed to get some blowing off the higher elevation literally in the backyard on winds from any direction other than east. 

 

That area does just fine...esp if you are up off the valley floor just a bit. Jackson is a great spot.

[dryslot]

Awesome area...right near SR. Just feet and feet of snow on the ground in winter.

 

That whole corridor all the way to Greenville is prime for snow pack

[powderfreak]

That area does just fine...esp if you are up off the valley floor just a bit. Jackson is a great spot.

A great spot for a QPF queen during coastal storms lol.

[moneypitmike]

That area does just fine...esp if you are up off the valley floor just a bit. Jackson is a great spot.

 

One of the places I'm most intrigued about is 15 miles from Bretton Woods and 6 miles west of Attitash.

 

Looking at a topo map, it's at only 800', but is apparently at the bottom of a cliff as the elevation rises to 1400'  in just over a 1/4 mile to the NNW; to 2600' 2 miles west across the notch, and about 1600' 3/4 mile to the south.  To the east, you're just looking down the valley toward Attitash (the base lodge is essentially at river elevation).

 

I don't think that would make for a snow hole, and suspect there could be some blowdown given the proximity to the surrounding hills.    Even if it is a bad spot, I suspect it radiates like there's no tomorrow.

[alex]

That area does just fine...esp if you are up off the valley floor just a bit. Jackson is a great spot.

 

I second that - sometimes surprisingly well. Only been there for a season, but we even had a strange storm where we got a few inches of sloppy snow, and Wildcat got wet snow with no accumulation. Still have no explanation for that considering the difference in elevation - but all in all, the entire Bartlett-Jackson-Hart's Location area does pretty well. We are a couple of hundred feet higher than the valley floor, and I haven't really noticed much difference. North Conway, on the other hand, can be quite a bit warmer on some marginal storms, and clears up faster than we do. Several times I left No Conway with clearing skies, and it was still dumping at the house. 

[J.Spin]

Yeah those that measure right after the snow or during the storm are always preferable.

 

I like how JSpin has been ing doing his reports now with his web cam...he's very consistent in his 6-12hr measurements and clears, then adds an image of the final snow depth for reference. Like this was from the mid-March storm which had big QPF (like 1.5" for 12" of snow) followed by a little fluff...but the board clearing total was 15.0" and then he added the pic of the settled storm depth for comparison:

 

image.jpg

 

If only we had more great sites out there with so much info haha. I give JSpin a lot of credit, I just don't have the dedication for being so diligent.

 

Hey, glad you’re getting a chance to hit the March files now.  I’d like to continue to track the snow that way for those larger storms in the future, and I’m actually in the process of creating an additional cylindrical gauge so that I won’t have to tack on an extension to the current 12 inch one.  The new gauge goes up to almost 3 feet, so that should suffice for just about any individual storm.  There wasn’t much need for a taller gauge last season with that 15.6” storm being the largest event, but hopefully we’ll be back to a more usual allotment of larger storms this season to give the monitoring system some tests.

[ORH_wxman]

One of the places I'm most intrigued about is 15 miles from Bretton Woods and 6 miles west of Attitash.

 

Looking at a topo map, it's at only 800', but is apparently at the bottom of a cliff as the elevation rises to 1400'  in just over a 1/4 mile to the NNW; to 2600' 2 miles west across the notch, and about 1600' 3/4 mile to the south.  To the east, you're just looking down the valley toward Attitash (the base lodge is essentially at river elevation).

 

I don't think that would make for a snow hole, and suspect there could be some blowdown given the proximity to the surrounding hills.    Even if it is a bad spot, I suspect it radiates like there's no tomorrow.

 

 

From the description if it, it sounds like a very good spot...if you are surrounded by higher terrain on 3 sides but down the valley to the east-southeast generally gets lower, then that would be a real weenie spot for snow retention and you wouldn't get downsloped in nor' easters. Even if you were surrounded on all 4 sides but the lower elevation was very local, then you wouldn't get downsloped since it takes a bit of a larger scale depression for that to become an issue.

[moneypitmike]

I second that - sometimes surprisingly well. Only been there for a season, but we even had a strange storm where we got a few inches of sloppy snow, and Wildcat got wet snow with no accumulation. Still have no explanation for that considering the difference in elevation - but all in all, the entire Bartlett-Jackson-Hart's Location area does pretty well. We are a couple of hundred feet higher than the valley floor, and I haven't really noticed much difference. North Conway, on the other hand, can be quite a bit warmer on some marginal storms, and clears up faster than we do. Several times I left No Conway with clearing skies, and it was still dumping at the house.

 

Where's your spot located?

[dryslot]

One of the places I'm most intrigued about is 15 miles from Bretton Woods and 6 miles west of Attitash.

 

Looking at a topo map, it's at only 800', but is apparently at the bottom of a cliff as the elevation rises to 1400'  in just over a 1/4 mile to the NNW; to 2600' 2 miles west across the notch, and about 1600' 3/4 mile to the south.  To the east, you're just looking down the valley toward Attitash (the base lodge is essentially at river elevation).

 

I don't think that would make for a snow hole, and suspect there could be some blowdown given the proximity to the surrounding hills.    Even if it is a bad spot, I suspect it radiates like there's no tomorrow.

 

Qpf worry cancel

[powderfreak]

Hey, glad you’re getting a chance to hit the March files now. I’d like to continue to track the snow that way for those larger storms in the future, and I’m actually in the process of creating an additional cylindrical gauge so that I won’t have to tack on an extension to the current 12 inch one. The new gauge goes up to almost 3 feet, so that should suffice for just about any individual storm. There wasn’t much need for a taller gauge last season with that 15.6” storm being the largest event, but hopefully we’ll be back to a more usual allotment of larger storms this season to give the monitoring system some tests.

Yeah really enjoyed the web can last year...and as always excellent work on the snow summaries. Best reference for snowstorms in our area that's out there.

[moneypitmike]

From the description if it, it sounds like a very good spot...if you are surrounded by higher terrain on 3 sides but down the valley to the east-southeast generally gets lower, then that would be a real weenie spot for snow retention and you wouldn't get downsloped in nor' easters. Even if you were surrounded on all 4 sides but the lower elevation was very local, then you wouldn't get downsloped since it takes a bit of a larger scale depression for that to become an issue.

 

I suspected that that would be the case, but I know you'd know better than I.  I'm curious as to whether it gets any artificial enhancement from snow blowing down.  It's probably not 'ravine' enough for that to happen, but perhaps it does a little to pad the snow totals.

 

We've gone down this road of buying a place a few times over the years--maybe this is the time we'll pull the trigger. It's also the first time we've looked during the off-season.  I'll spend more time looking at the houses and less time estimating what the snow depth is.