The ideal New England winter home (for maximum snow experience)

[Radders]

Check out Norfolk, CT. More snow than Southbridge, tends to keep snow longer, and not Southbridge. Less crowded than the Berkshires or the Whites during summer and ski season.

Isn't Norfolk one of the snowiest towns in Southern New England?

I am sure I read something about it getting over 100" a year. It's elevation is pretty good at 1230 feet.

It's known as the Ice Box of CT lol.

I think I drove through it once as I was curious and it was quite a small place.

I like Salisbury CT which is close by.

[Radders]

Is Woodstock VT a good spot for snow? Certainly looks like a nice place.... Assume it would not do so well in NW flow upsloping events, but might do better with coastals given it is further east.  However given it is southwest of the Whites, I am guessing it also might suffer from shadowing in a northeast flow.  Looks like the average is about 80-82" according to NOAA and the US Climate/Data website...

[bobbutts]

Is Woodstock VT a good spot for snow? Certainly looks like a nice place.... Assume it would not do so well in NW flow upsloping events, but might do better with coastals given it is further east.  However given it is southwest of the Whites, I am guessing it also might suffer from shadowing in a northeast flow.  Looks like the average is about 80-82" according to NOAA and the US Climate/Data website...

They do have Suicide Six right outside town too.  One of the few ski areas in NE I've never visited.  According to their website, the avg annual snowfall there is 110" but doesn't mention if that is top/bottom/mid

• ELEVATION-TOP: 1,200 feet
• BASE: 550 feet

[tamarack]

Bethel Maine fits your desired description to a tee

 

Probably the closest fit in Maine, though town center barely ekes over Radders' 700' criterion.  Of course, there are places 5-10 minute drive from town that are 1,000'+, especially on side branches off Sunday River Road.  Ski area real estate prices, however, and a bit of snow shadow from the Mahoosuc Range just to the west (great hiking, though) unless one gets serious elevation.   Sandy River corridor from Farmington to Phillips is nice, too, but town centers are at 400-500', with the usual side roads gaining hundreds of feet. Zero upslope, unfortunately, but mega-CAD, if snowpack retention is a factor.   I'm heavily biased toward Maine, but for diversity of "classic New England towns", Vt has the most, and as PF noted, the Rt 100 corridor the best combo of atmosphwere and snowfall.  One really nice town is Whitefied, NH, but it gets 360-degree downsloping.  Good if vodka-cold mornings are important.  Same for Berlin, but it's a mill town and much less picturesque.

[CoastalWx]

Whitefield is an absolute pit. Downslope city. You don't want that.

[wxmanmitch]

Isn't Norfolk one of the snowiest towns in Southern New England?

I am sure I read something about it getting over 100" a year. It's elevation is pretty good at 1230 feet.

It's known as the Ice Box of CT lol.

I think I drove through it once as I was curious and it was quite a small place.

I like Salisbury CT which is close by.

 

 

Norfolk, CT is an excellent snow spot given its low latitude. There's a COOP weather station there that has over 100 years of reliable data and they average 91" a winter at around 1,400' of elevation. Salisbury doesn't do as well since they get shadowed, however up on that plateau to the west of town must do quite well, but pretty much nobody lives there. Pretty much anywhere along the entire length of US 7 from W CT, W MA, and VT will get shadowed during winter synoptic snows, when the wind flow typically has an easterly component. You want to be east of US 7 for better snow. Sometimes the US 7 corridor will get some upslope when winds are W or NW,  but usually it's snow showers with minimal accumulation.

 

Is Woodstock VT a good spot for snow? Certainly looks like a nice place.... Assume it would not do so well in NW flow upsloping events, but might do better with coastals given it is further east.  However given it is southwest of the Whites, I am guessing it also might suffer from shadowing in a northeast flow.  Looks like the average is about 80-82" according to NOAA and the US Climate/Data website...

 

Woodstock, VT is probably far enough away from the Whites that they probably don't have to contend with too much shadowing on NE flows. It's also on the eastern slope of the Greens so they will upslope during storms and that area will tend to hold onto low level cold during warm advection events, so the snow pack retention there is probably decent compared to further west on US 4. There looks to be a lot of side roads there that rise to near 2,000' so they probably do really well with well in excess of 100" per year at those elevations.

[powderfreak]

Whitefield is an absolute pit. Downslope city. You don't want that.

I don't get how they don't upslope on NW flow being upwind of MWN. I would think any blocked flow would hammer them. How far from like Bretton Woods are they?

But yeah they will downslope on the moist QPF heavy flow off the Atlantic.

[tamarack]

I don't get how they don't upslope on NW flow being upwind of MWN. I would think any blocked flow would hammer them. How far from like Bretton Woods are they?

But yeah they will downslope on the moist QPF heavy flow off the Atlantic.

 

Only 12 miles, according to Google Earth, and about 600' lower, with surrounding hills in every direction but NW.

[Nittany88]

Woodstock is one of the best towns in the state in my opinion. A lot to do in the area, including the town itself, and then Killington, Hanover, and Lebanon are all within short drives. Beautiful area and the town is top notch. The snow there is like much of Eastern Vermont. They are in a valley and further south so they don't quite average as much as some areas further to the north, but they will get some SE Upslope. Any northwest flow though is pure downslope and shadowing. They got virtually nothing in the famous BTV storm in 2010.

 

[Radders]

Woodstock is one of the best towns in the state in my opinion. A lot to do in the area, including the town itself, and then Killington, Hanover, and Lebanon are all within short drives. Beautiful area and the town is top notch. The snow there is like much of Eastern Vermont. They are in a valley and further south so they don't quite average as much as some areas further to the north, but they will get some SE Upslope. Any northwest flow though is pure downslope and shadowing. They got virtually nothing in the famous BTV storm in 2010.

I am checking out some Berkshire towns and then Woodstock tomorrow. I will then be driving up rt 100 to Stowe. Woodstock looks beautiful and as you say, top notch.. However NW flow down-sloping/shadowing is definitely a negative. Pros and cons. Pros and cons! I wonder if the average resident of Woodstock cares about these things lol.

I feel like Woodstock and Stowe are amongst my top contenders in VT at this stage.

[powderfreak]

Speaking of Woodstock, VT...the "Vermont" Facebook page just posted this photo done by Marion Post Wolcott from 1938-1939 of Woodstock:

 

[moneypitmike]

Does anyone have a good map that shows average annual snowfalls for the GYX CWA or individual ones for Maine and NH?

 

Thanks.

[ORH_wxman]

I have been thinking about how to go about picking the right area a little more, and I am leaning towards living in a town/village and being part of a community rather than being up a mountain somewhere. I would want to find a picture postcard New England town with a quaint Main St, historic buildings and enough restaurants/bars/amenities for it to be a social place with a real community....But it has to meet certain criteria e.g. elevation/proximity to mountains

 

I was thinking that a good way to do this is to short list a number of towns in the region that meet a  certain criteria. E.g. >number of population between 2000 and 5000,  elevation >700 ft (ideally 1000+).  Many picture perfect New England towns are in valleys (or on the coast), which is fine as long as the valley itself is high and there is no major shadowing from mountains (not a snow death area)...

 

 

The examples of places that I have so far are that I intend to do more research on (grouped by regions I am interested in):

 

Lake Placid, NY 

 

Berkshires:

North Cannan, CT

Adams, MA

Stockbridge, MA

Lenox, MA

Williamstown, MA

 

Central MA

Southbridge, MA

 

Greens:

Ludlow, VT

Rutland VT

Underhill VT

Stowe, VT

 

Whites

Hanover, NH

Berlin, NH

Jackson NH

Bethel ME

 

I am wondering if there is a systematic way to pull some data rather than scanning across googlemaps on terrain mode. Anybody have any ideas on a more efficient way to do this? Also, would appreciate any other suggestions on nice towns that would make the list...

 

 

For central MA, check out Paxton...it is one town WNW of ORH and very picturesque. Population 4800 and elevation at town center is around 1200 feet.

 

If you want to go further north in central MA, then Princeton or Westminster might fit the bill. Both are very picturesque and elevation over 1,000 feet for both of them at the center of town. Princeton might be slightly lacking though in the social scene....Westminster has a few more shops and places to eat. Princeton has the Mountain Barn and that's about it, lol. Paxton has the advantage of being a total quaint NE town in its own winter microclimate but extremely close to ORH for other daily needs.

[CoastalWx]

Adams MA is a pit. I suppose they could get leftovers spilling over from Mt Greylock...but that is a deep valley prone to downsloping.

[ORH_wxman]

Adams MA is a pit. I suppose they could get leftovers spilling over from Mt Greylock...but that is a deep valley prone to downsloping.

 

 

Ditto Williamstown.

[Radders]

Yeah, I drove through that west MA towns in the berkshires on Saturday on my way to VT and as picturesque as they are, they are definitely more valley towns.  Lenox was pretty decent since it was high up but Williamstown was definitely noticeably in a valley and Stockbridge was just a little too small. Didn't make it to Adams as I ended up just heading north in to VT on RT7.

 

Things really get real once you get in to Vermont - Mountains and views are just amazing all the way through the state. Bennington is a nice place but given it torches in a SW flow, it really is a non-starter.  I then stopped off in Manchester, and thought it was a nice place albeit a little busy because of the outlet malls, but it was very quaint at the same time and you are surrounded by higher ground (probably a bad thing though lol) so it feels like you are in the mountains.   Then I checked out Woodstock...Wow, what an awesome  cute place - Don't think you get much better than that if you are looking for quaint New England towns. Very top notch, and well kept.. Although the town is only 650', you can quickly get up to 1000'+ if you drive up any of the side roads from the main drag.  Definitely a place to consider but it is rather expensive there to buy. 

I then drove up rt. 100 to Stowe and spent most of my time there.  Having been there before I knew what to expect and I continue to be impressed with the area - Mount Mansfield really is an amazing place to have on your doorstep, and the village is pretty amazing too.  I would say that Woodstock takes the prize for being quainter, but Stowe has so much more to do (given it is a resort town) plus the village is still pretty damn nice.

I also hung out in Burlington and I was very impressed with the downtown area - Loads of restaurants and bars and a really nice looking town with lots of historic homes and buildings.  I  can only see Burlington getting better and better.  It is good to have a place like that within 30 minutes drive.  I was also thinking that Montreal is another place that is not that far - probably only 2 hours.

Right now my heart tells me Stowe is the top place to focus (at least in VT). From the standpoint of meeting all the criteria, it certainly ticks all the boxes for me.  The key will be to find a place (or some land) that is over 1000' in elevation since the village is only at 700'.  Not that it probably matters that much given how far north in latitude it is up there.  I intend to spend quite a bit of time there this winter (to the extent i can) to get a better feel for what it would be like to actually live there..

 

Having said that, I really did like Woodstock and probably need to look into it a little further.  Skiing is close by,  although I have never been a fan of the Killington ski area..  Not sure what Lebanon/White River Junction are like as towns - Didn't have time to check them out..

[tamarack]

Having said that, I really did like Woodstock and probably need to look into it a little further.  Skiing is close by,  although I have never been a fan of the Killington ski area..  Not sure what Lebanon/White River Junction are like as towns - Didn't have time to check them out..

 

Probably don't want to be right on the CT river, or even on the slopes within a few miles of it.  I've not been thru Waitsfield for many a year (ski week at the old Glen Ellen), but I thought it had considerable "VT quaintness" when I'd visited.  Farther from Burlington, but I think the lift tickets at Sugarbush and MRG are cheaper than at Stowe.  PF would know.

[ORH_wxman]

Princeton has alot more than the mountain barn, Sonoma is an excellent fine dining restaurant - better than most in worcester. Mountainside market makes awesome sandwiches and has alot of high quality products. There is also a well above pizza place next door. There is also the wachusett lodge as well as an excellent wine/beer store in town( forget the name now). Definitely quaint but a much quainter more scenic and not run down area unlike parts of westminster nearby. Agree with paxton also being a nice spot.

 

 

I totally forgot about that post-office center there in Princeton south of the center of town that has Sonoma on rt 31. Is that where the pizza place is too?

 

I don't know much else for stores/eateries in Princeton other than that area plus Mountain Barn. There's a bit of a dive bar on rt 140 down the hill from the mountain a ways, but I'm not sure if that is technically in Sterling or Princeton since you go in and out of those towns a couple times on that stretch...it's near that convenient store except on the opposite side of the road.

 

I agree that Princeton is more asthetically pleasing than Westminster, though Westminster's downtown is pretty quaint IMHO. The views from Princeton are hard to beat though.

[powderfreak]

Probably don't want to be right on the CT river, or even on the slopes within a few miles of it.  I've not been thru Waitsfield for many a year (ski week at the old Glen Ellen), but I thought it had considerable "VT quaintness" when I'd visited.  Farther from Burlington, but I think the lift tickets at Sugarbush and MRG are cheaper than at Stowe.  PF would know.

 

Sugarbush is a bit cheaper if you do your homework, but if you buy in like September or October, the difference is only $40.  For Sugarbush, your best deal is buy over the summer and it is $1349.  Historically the majority of skiers/riders in the ski industry purchases passes between September and November (October sees the most pass sales usually, must be when people really start thinking about winter, change in the weather, etc)... at which time Sugarbush is $1,679 to Stowe's $1,719.  However, once you get into November Stowe's seasons pass increases to $2,100. 

 

I like Waitsfield and Warren a lot too...got no issues there and would definitely live there, they do get some upslope events, and do well in nor'easters.  Its definitely quieter than Stowe, with the restaurant/bar scene not quite as extensive, but depends on what you are looking for.  Sometimes Stowe gets too busy for me on peak weekends, but those folks bring dollars so that's the trade off.  I'm sure North Conway and Jackson area are similar...90% of the year its great and you get 10% where it gets a little too congested.

 

Another aspect of buying a home is that its an investment, and I've read that both Stowe and Woodstock have some of the more stable property values in the state resort towns (probably a lot of that is resting on reputation from out-of-staters as a quality place to buy). Both Stowe and Woodstock town governments go through considerable lengths to keep the places looking upscale and do anything they can to keep property values up (which in turn gives those towns more tax dollars to keep the places looking nice).  I mean for a small town, Stowe has a ridiculous "Public Safety Complex" fire and police station, lol and for the small permanent population, you won't find a more well-funded police department with toys they don't need for the "crime" here.  Roads get paved and graded regularly, sidewalks, 5.5 mile paved Recreation Path between town and close to the mountain, crazy landscaping budget, publicly funded indoor championship hockey & skate rink run by the Parks & Rec Department (what town of under 5,000 residents has this stuff?)...money can turn any rural VT town into an upscale area haha.  We joke that sometimes its like Pleasantville in the Mountains...where if your lawn isn't cut in a timely manner the town may come do it for you, lol. 

 

The visitors that come here in the summer and fall all hit the same exact towns usually too...they start in Acadia then go to Jackson or North Conway, NH then stop in Woodstock, VT, then go to Stowe, then head south to Stockbridge or Williamstown, MA.  Its hilarious to hear that story over and over...its like they googled classic New England tourist towns and that's what they came up with.

[tamarack]

The visitors that come here in the summer and fall all hit the same exact towns usually too...they start in Acadia then go to Jackson or North Conway, NH then stop in Woodstock, VT, then go to Stowe, then head south to Stockbridge or Williamstown, MA.  Its hilarious to hear that story over and over...its like they googled classic New England tourist towns and that's what they came up with.

 

Pretty much described our honeymoon, 43 yr ago when we lived in NNJ, except that we added Boothbay at the start and Whiteface at the finish (where I terrorized my new bride on the rickety chairlift up to Little Whiteface - no footrest and a teeny lap "bar".)

[Radders]

Another aspect of buying a home is that its an investment, and I've read that both Stowe and Woodstock have some of the more stable property values in the state resort towns (probably a lot of that is resting on reputation from out-of-staters as a quality place to buy). Both Stowe and Woodstock town governments go through considerable lengths to keep the places looking upscale and do anything they can to keep property values up (which in turn gives those towns more tax dollars to keep the places looking nice).  I mean for a small town, Stowe has a ridiculous "Public Safety Complex" fire and police station, lol and for the small permanent population, you won't find a more well-funded police department with toys they don't need for the "crime" here.  Roads get paved and graded regularly, sidewalks, 5.5 mile paved Recreation Path between town and close to the mountain, crazy landscaping budget, publicly funded indoor championship hockey & skate rink run by the Parks & Rec Department (what town of under 5,000 residents has this stuff?)...money can turn any rural VT town into an upscale area haha.  We joke that sometimes its like Pleasantville in the Mountains...where if your lawn isn't cut in a timely manner the town may come do it for you, lol.

I agree with this.. I definitely want to buy and invest in somewhere that has a good infrastructure and steady home prices.  Although the problem then is the residents of Stowe and Woodstock likely pay higher property tax rates than other less touristy parts of Vermont.  It is all trade offs.  Waitsfield and Warren are nice towns, but for me, they would be too sleepy. Nice for a visit to get away from it all for a few days but I don't think I could live there full time.

[Hitman]

I luv Warren/Waitsfield and it is much quieter than Stowe.  no traffic lights, no chain retail stores.  Not much in terms of nightlife, but the restaurants are generally good.  in terms of snow Mansfield gets about 40"/year more than sugarbush/mrg. the mad river is great for summer fun and the mtn biking trail network is great.

 

as for as the season pass prices, I buy before 5/15 and its $1049 for all mtn.  A mt ellen only pass is significantly cheaper still.  I think this year they introduced a midweek only pass for 65 and over for like $200 and if you're in your 20's an all mtn pass is only 350 if you buy early.

[Nittany88]

Yeah, I drove through that west MA towns in the berkshires on Saturday on my way to VT and as picturesque as they are, they are definitely more valley towns.  Lenox was pretty decent since it was high up but Williamstown was definitely noticeably in a valley and Stockbridge was just a little too small. Didn't make it to Adams as I ended up just heading north in to VT on RT7.

 

Things really get real once you get in to Vermont - Mountains and views are just amazing all the way through the state. Bennington is a nice place but given it torches in a SW flow, it really is a non-starter.  I then stopped off in Manchester, and thought it was a nice place albeit a little busy because of the outlet malls, but it was very quaint at the same time and you are surrounded by higher ground (probably a bad thing though lol) so it feels like you are in the mountains.   Then I checked out Woodstock...Wow, what an awesome  cute place - Don't think you get much better than that if you are looking for quaint New England towns. Very top notch, and well kept.. Although the town is only 650', you can quickly get up to 1000'+ if you drive up any of the side roads from the main drag.  Definitely a place to consider but it is rather expensive there to buy. 

I then drove up rt. 100 to Stowe and spent most of my time there.  Having been there before I knew what to expect and I continue to be impressed with the area - Mount Mansfield really is an amazing place to have on your doorstep, and the village is pretty amazing too.  I would say that Woodstock takes the prize for being quainter, but Stowe has so much more to do (given it is a resort town) plus the village is still pretty damn nice.

I also hung out in Burlington and I was very impressed with the downtown area - Loads of restaurants and bars and a really nice looking town with lots of historic homes and buildings.  I  can only see Burlington getting better and better.  It is good to have a place like that within 30 minutes drive.  I was also thinking that Montreal is another place that is not that far - probably only 2 hours.

Right now my heart tells me Stowe is the top place to focus (at least in VT). From the standpoint of meeting all the criteria, it certainly ticks all the boxes for me.  The key will be to find a place (or some land) that is over 1000' in elevation since the village is only at 700'.  Not that it probably matters that much given how far north in latitude it is up there.  I intend to spend quite a bit of time there this winter (to the extent i can) to get a better feel for what it would be like to actually live there..

 

Having said that, I really did like Woodstock and probably need to look into it a little further.  Skiing is close by,  although I have never been a fan of the Killington ski area..  Not sure what Lebanon/White River Junction are like as towns - Didn't have time to check them out..

 

Well you certainly hit the best 3 towns in the state, Manchester, Woodstock, and Stowe. And Burlington, the "city" of course.

[powderfreak]

Well you certainly hit the best 3 towns in the state, Manchester, Woodstock, and Stowe. And Burlington, the "city" of course.

Visiting "the big city" takes on a whole new meaning in VT lol. I still love BTV...I think that place is awesome. By far the best sunsets in New England. Summer evenings by the lake front are hard to beat.

[powderfreak]

I luv Warren/Waitsfield and it is much quieter than Stowe. no traffic lights, no chain retail stores. Not much in terms of nightlife, but the restaurants are generally good.

Unfortunately we have a 3-way stop that has a flashing red light affixed to the stop sign. There's always a debate in town if they should remove it as it's *almost* a traffic light lol.

I really enjoy Warren and Waitsfield too. If I were to pick another town to live in it would be one of those. Being in my 20s though I do enjoy being able to walk home from the bars though.

[Met1985]

Awesome thread guys! I have been looking out west and up north just for a winter getaway. I looked up in Pittsburg, NH at some housing and land. You really have to shop around to get a decent price.

[Radders]

Visiting "the big city" takes on a whole new meaning in VT lol. I still love BTV...I think that place is awesome. By far the best sunsets in New England. Summer evenings by the lake front are hard to beat.

I had fun there.  Went to the farmhouse tap and grill and it was humming with people.  I love the way that they have the paved off street with bars and restaurants - It has a very european feel to it.  It was very balmy and windy there this weekend though.  Not sure if that is the norm - I know there is another thread going about BTV but I could definitely relate to how different it felt down there versus 30 miles east in the mountains..

[Nittany88]

Visiting "the big city" takes on a whole new meaning in VT lol. I still love BTV...I think that place is awesome. By far the best sunsets in New England. Summer evenings by the lake front are hard to beat.

 

Lol it kills me every time I hear people say they're going to the "city" for the day.

[moneypitmike]

Does anyone have a good map that shows average annual snowfalls for the GYX CWA or individual ones for Maine and NH?  I'm trying to get a broader 'lay of the land' than just the climo sites.  Helps with this discussion, too. 

 

Thanks.

 

bump.

[alex]

bump.

Double bump - would love one as well!