The ideal New England winter home (for maximum snow experience)

[mreaves]

One area which has not been mentioned yet is the area near Vershire/ Corinth Vermont.  It is close to 89 and 91 so access is good from NYC/ Boston/ SNE.  Hanover and W. Lebanon are close and it isn't too bad to get to Montpelier/ Stowe/ Burlington as well.   skiing is close and there is the skating on Lake Morey.  Hanover is a really great little town and the high ground near it really does well in coastal events.  Allenson registered 126" in Corinth this past year.  He could chime in one the area's attractions even more.

 

Here are the current Corinth listings:

http://nneren.com/listings/?t%5B%5D=648&Town_State%5B%5D=Corinth+VT&s=-Date+Listed

Was thinking the same thing but had been too lazy to respond.

[dendrite]

I didn't see a red tag all this time so I don't know.

He's stealth.

[dryslot]

He's stealth.

 

Under the radar

[Radders]

 

 

Here are the current Corinth listings:

http://nneren.com/listings/?t%5B%5D=648&Town_State%5B%5D=Corinth+VT&s=-Date+Listed

I will say this - Property values here are definitely more reasonable than resort towns like Stowe, Lake Placid etc.  

[ORH_wxman]

Just checked out (again) the co-op sites in NW Maine, and the situation is worse than I thought.  According to the CLIMOD site, Clayton Lake's last reports were for March 2011, and Allagash reports ended with March 2012.  There is a station at Churchill Dam, 15 miles SE of Clayton, but obs there are rather sporadic.  Thus the area west of Ft. Kent and north of Pittston Farm, 5000+ square miles, is a blank space.  Of course, apart from the Rt 161 corridor from FK to Allagash, there are essentially no permanent residents in that area.

 

 

Yeah the obs there are bad...even the existing coops really seem to struggle from missing and/or poor data. It is hard to find a good coop in that corridor outside of Pinkham Notch which is really the furthest southwest extent of that general region I was discussing yesterday.

 

I'd love to see more obs in the 1500-2000 foot belt there. Pinkham Notch averages about 150" per year but their snow depth days are really impressive . I'd imagine those figures are higher in the same elevation belt to the northeast. We've got Rangeley, ME coop a bit lower down at 1100-1200 feet and their average looks like roughly 125"...but the data isn't pristine, especially for depth. Could be a bit higher averages in reality than listed.

[bobbutts]

Yeah the obs there are bad...even the existing coops really seem to struggle from missing and/or poor data. It is hard to find a good coop in that corridor outside of Pinkham Notch which is really the furthest southwest extent of that general region I was discussing yesterday.

 

I'd love to see more obs in the 1500-2000 foot belt there. Pinkham Notch averages about 150" per year but their snow depth days are really impressive . I'd imagine those figures are higher in the same elevation belt to the northeast. We've got Rangeley, ME coop a bit lower down at 1100-1200 feet and their average looks like roughly 125"...but the data isn't pristine, especially for depth. Could be a bit higher averages in reality than listed.

Wildcat claims 200" avg annual snowfall.  They don't specify what elevation though.  150-200" seems like a fair range for that spot.  Unfortunately I don't think there's anywhere to live up there.

 

Nice snow piles along 16 near Pinkham Notch 03/15/2014

[Radders]

Wildcat claims 200" avg annual snowfall.  They don't specify what elevation though.  150-200" seems like a fair range for that spot.  Unfortunately I don't think there's anywhere to live up there.

 

 

Nice snow piles along 16 near Pinkham Notch 03/15/2014

What a difference a few months makes, it was lush green there last weekend, I took a walk not far from there around Great Ellis Falls and with the look and smell of the different pine trees and spruces etc in the woods, it almost felt Mediterranean... 

[wx2fish]

I noticed that as well up by Wyman lake

In ME when I went rafting years ago. The place just looked cold lol. It's too bad the border crossing from NH to Canada doesn't have good obs. It's like 2400' there.

 

There was a COOP at Diamond Pond (just south of Pittsburg in Stewartstown around 2300') from 1997-2010. Short sample size but they averaged 225"/yr with a max of 310" and a min of 156". Id bet the border station 25 miles to the north and similar elevation averaged atleast 230"/yr during that time period. Its heavily elevation dependent up there, but some places get absolutely crushed.

[CoastalWx]

There was a COOP at Diamond Pond (just south of Pittsburg in Stewartstown around 2300') from 1997-2010. Short sample size but they averaged 225"/yr with a max of 310" and a min of 156". Id bet the border station 25 miles to the north and similar elevation averaged atleast 230"/yr during that time period. Its heavily elevation dependent up there, but some places get absolutely crushed.

 

Your weenie stories are enough to make me want to check it out during the winter..lol.

[Damage In Tolland]

I didn't see a red tag all this time so I don't know.

Well I elected not to have one either.

[powderfreak]

Well I elected not to have one either.

well played

[dendrite]

There was a COOP at Diamond Pond (just south of Pittsburg in Stewartstown around 2300') from 1997-2010. Short sample size but they averaged 225"/yr with a max of 310" and a min of 156". Id bet the border station 25 miles to the north and similar elevation averaged atleast 230"/yr during that time period. Its heavily elevation dependent up there, but some places get absolutely crushed.

Same guy?

http://www.wunderground.com/personal-weather-station/dashboard?ID=KNHSTEWA2#history

[ORH_wxman]

There was a COOP at Diamond Pond (just south of Pittsburg in Stewartstown around 2300') from 1997-2010. Short sample size but they averaged 225"/yr with a max of 310" and a min of 156". Id bet the border station 25 miles to the north and similar elevation averaged atleast 230"/yr during that time period. Its heavily elevation dependent up there, but some places get absolutely crushed.

 

 

 

That makes sense...I suspected that some higher areas there on the plateau region got over 200 inches per year. It looks like even the Diamond Pond coop didn't have the greatest snowfall data either...some missing data. Esp in the fringe months (like April/Oct). Though that is definitely the best estimate I have seen from that area. The lower down First Conn Lake has decent data, but unfortunately it is "only" 1600 feet. They average 160" there.

[TauntonBlizzard2013]

225" as an average? That's incredible.

This forum has taught me a lot. If someone told me a few years ago a place in new Hampshire averages 225" a year, I would have never thought it could be true.

Kind of a weenie question here, but can't find any data myself.

Do any observations come out of a place called russel pond?

Its just north of Woodstock and claims to be about 2,000 feet. Not sure how true that is. However, when I was there last year, i figured that it could see massive snow totals

[dendrite]

225" as an average? That's incredible.

This forum has taught me a lot. If someone told me a few years ago a place in new Hampshire averages 225" a year, I would have never thought it could be true.

Kind of a weenie question here, but can't find any data myself.

Do any observations come out of a place called russel pond?

Its just north of Woodstock and claims to be about 2,000 feet. Not sure how true that is. However, when I was there last year, i figured that it could see massive snow totals

MWN averages 281.2"

[ORH_wxman]

MWN averages 281.2"

 

 

If they measured just below the summit in tuckerman's, it would probably be like 400", lol.

[Radders]

If they measured just below the summit in tuckerman's, it would probably be like 400", lol.

Or this place lol - The ultimate weenie lodging...

 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/AMC+Lakes+of+the+Clouds+Hut/@44.258864,-71.318966,2a,90y,90t/data=!3m5!1e2!3m3!1s6557024!2e1!3e10!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xc080c082fb70af93!6m1!1e1

[Nittany88]

Wait, do you guys at the NWS core from a snowboard for liquid analysis, or is a snowboard used for depth and other instrumentation used for liquid?

 

The cores are either done using an Adirondack Snow Sampling Tube or a cheaper alternative:

 

http://www.rickly.com/MI/SnowSamplingTubes.htm#Model%203610%20-%20Adirondack%20Snow%20Sampling%20Tube

 

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/btv/html/snowtubeinstr.htm

 

We do not do cores of each event, only the depth at 12z each morning.

[Nittany88]

He's stealth.

[CoastalWx]

Nice. Good office up there.

[Nittany88]

Nice. Good office up there.

 

Thanks! it's a fun place to work, just could be a little warmer

[tamarack]

Rangeley co-op is listed as 1,530'. Since DeLorme puts Rangeley Lake at 1518, that puts the site right in town. Too bad it wasn't at the airport, about 250' higher, or better yet at the Saddleback base lodge at about 2000'. Other Maine mt locations (Eustis, Jackman, Pittston Farm) are 1100-1260', all pretty modest.

[powderfreak]

If they measured just below the summit in tuckerman's, it would probably be like 400", lol.

Yeah if they could find a sheltered spot with little wind and measured on a snow board where the dendrites could actually stack up instead of being pulverized, I'm sure the increase would be similar to what I see on Mansfield...like an additional 30-50% of snow in a lot of cases.

[OceanStWx]

Yeah if they could find a sheltered spot with little wind and measured on a snow board where the dendrites could actually stack up instead of being pulverized, I'm sure the increase would be similar to what I see on Mansfield...like an additional 30-50% of snow in a lot of cases.

 

As an interesting aside, when I was up on the summit a couple weeks ago they were explained how they analyze the dendrites in the air to determine if they've been smashed up by collisions with the rockpile in order to categorize it as blowing snow versus actual falling snow (dendrites will remain intact).

[powderfreak]

As an interesting aside, when I was up on the summit a couple weeks ago they were explained how they analyze the dendrites in the air to determine if they've been smashed up by collisions with the rockpile in order to categorize it as blowing snow versus actual falling snow (dendrites will remain intact).

 

That is very interesting!  I never really thought about it, but yeah, up there with no trees around the snow is probably often falling sideways anyway, so that must be real hard to know if its just the wind blowing snow hundreds of feet into the air around the top, or if its actually falling from the sky.  I'm sure when you are socked in clouds and 0.00 visibility, its gotta be hard to figure out if its actually snowing or just blowing.   That sort of analysis would help sort that out.

[Radders]

I have been thinking about how to go about picking the right area a little more, and I am leaning towards living in a town/village and being part of a community rather than being up a mountain somewhere. I would want to find a picture postcard New England town with a quaint Main St, historic buildings and enough restaurants/bars/amenities for it to be a social place with a real community....But it has to meet certain criteria e.g. elevation/proximity to mountains

 

I was thinking that a good way to do this is to short list a number of towns in the region that meet a  certain criteria. E.g. >number of population between 2000 and 5000,  elevation >700 ft (ideally 1000+).  Many picture perfect New England towns are in valleys (or on the coast), which is fine as long as the valley itself is high and there is no major shadowing from mountains (not a snow death area)...

 

 

The examples of places that I have so far are that I intend to do more research on (grouped by regions I am interested in):

 

Lake Placid, NY 

 

Berkshires:

North Cannan, CT

Adams, MA

Stockbridge, MA

Lenox, MA

Williamstown, MA

 

Central MA

Southbridge, MA

 

Greens:

Ludlow, VT

Rutland VT

Underhill VT

Stowe, VT

 

Whites

Hanover, NH

Berlin, NH

Jackson NH

Bethel ME

 

I am wondering if there is a systematic way to pull some data rather than scanning across googlemaps on terrain mode. Anybody have any ideas on a more efficient way to do this? Also, would appreciate any other suggestions on nice towns that would make the list...

[powderfreak]

As far as the the spots listed in the Greens... avoid Rutland like the plague.  No real NW upslope and then they get downsloped hard on SE flow events.  Rutland has some rough spots too with lots of crime/drugs.

 

Underhill would be a good snow spot, but if you are looking for restaurants and bars its going to disappoint.  Its more of a bedroom community for Burlington as most who live there commute into BTV.

 

Stowe and Ludlow are the only ski towns with classic New England white steeple churches, bars, restaurants, shops, etc.  Other towns you may want to add are Warren and Waitsfield for Sugarbush/MRG area.  Those are pretty darn classic New England towns with good snowfall too.

 

Pretty much RT 100 is your friend in VT...follow that road and pick towns from it as it goes up the east slope of the Greens.  That goes all the way from Wilmington/Mt Snow up to Jay Peak passing Killington/Ludlow/Warren/Waitsfield/Stowe/Jay.

 

I just found these the other day...some old upslope storm snowfall maps from 1999.  The only reason to pick VT is for the upslope snowfall, so you want to make sure you pick a spot that wouldn't leave you left out of these events (such as Rutland).  My personal preference is the zone from Warren/Waitsfield north through Waterbury/Stowe...plenty of restaurants, stuff to do, and easy access to I-89 for Burlington or traveling south to Boston/CT.  That zone does decently for meso-scale snow, but can also get some good synoptic dumpings on SE flow being on the east slopes.

 

This must've been a solid event with near 30" at Stowe/Mansfield and Jay Peak.

 

 

12-16" in Stowe/Waterbury with a Trace at BTV, good case study event.

 

[NEK_VT_Upslope_Event]

Great thread. For maximum duration and very strong coverage, I've become fairly partial to my neck of the woods. There is a 1200-2100' spine running from say Corinth to Walden VT (including Groton, Peacham, Danville) where we always seem to do very well in both synoptic as well as upslope situations. We don't get shadowed (usually) and we can still benefit from the elevation effect. It probably isn't like what they get at 2500-3000' in the Greens but I love the fact that we get in on more coastals than they do, since it's important to me to still experience real coastal storms, being from the coast and all. So, there's my (biased) vote.

[powderfreak]

Great thread. For maximum duration and very strong coverage, I've become fairly partial to my neck of the woods. There is a 1200-2100' spine running from say Corinth to Walden VT (including Groton, Peacham, Danville) where we always seem to do very well in both synoptic as well as upslope situations. We don't get shadowed (usually) and we can still benefit from the elevation effect. It probably isn't like what they get at 2500-3000' in the Greens but I love the fact that we get in on more coastals than they do, since it's important to me to still experience real coastal storms, being from the coast and all. So, there's my (biased) vote.

That area is great...Walden does surprisingly well in NW flow upslope. It's an excellent area for snowmobiling...without any real downhill ski areas (Burke doesn't truly count given the abundance of other great mountains in the state) though that's the drawback for me personally.

But there are definitely snow holes in that area closer to the Upper Valley away from those Orange Heights to Walden ridgeline....those spots that downslope on NW flow (off the Greens) and SE flow (off the Whites).

[eekuasepinniW]

As far as the the spots listed in the Greens... avoid Rutland like the plague.  No real NW upslope and then they get downsloped hard on SE flow events.  Rutland has some rough spots too with lots of crime/drugs.

I passed through Rutland probably 15 years ago.  The only thing I remember was that it seemed like a high number of homes didn't have any siding- just that Tyvek homewrap stuff. It was odd because it clearly was not new construction.