The ideal New England winter home (for maximum snow experience)

[Nittany88]

If I had to live farther south, I would love to live up on that plateau near Woodford, VT and Mt Snow.  That's a good size chunk of terrain above 2,000ft elevation (my college roommate grew up in Halifax, VT right near there at 1,900ft) and you know the weather gets much more interesting in general once you start hitting near that 2,000ft and higher level.  Wind, snow, t-storms, etc, its all more exciting being up that high.  Even the mountain cumulus clouds look like you can reach out and touch them being only a couple thousand feet off the deck instead of like 4-5kft overhead in the valleys.

 

Southern VT gets a good deal of synoptic snow, they are ok at retention for their latitude, but you have to be east of the crest.  They also end up with a decent amount of dying lake effect streamers and upslope snow in the right pattern.   I'd be curious as to how those mountain towns in SVT do with snowfall vs. say SW NH in the Monadnocks region...like Jaffery and environs. 

 

Yeah Bennington roasts on southerly flow.

[radarman]

When I think of food I think of farms, not restaurants.  And for that this area is supreme... some of the best soil in the world really.  Restaurants here are good by most standards and ample as they usually are when you have many colleges around.  But in general there's very little need to go unless you just feeling like getting out, which is a perfectly acceptable reason of course. 

 

I've always felt that on the rare occasion that the valley floor is cashing in hard in a storm, it's one of the best spots to be because wind sweeps across the open fields creating a ground blizzard effect on top of what's falling.  Approaches true white out and feels like a high plains blizzard.  But you have to put aside 1) lightning fast flips to IP->ZR->RN 2) downslope from nearly all directions 3) torched BLs  and 4) the whiff.   Other than that it's great!

[forkyfork]

some mountain near canada

[dryslot]

Higher elevations from Pittsburg, NH to Greenville Maine if you like snow pack, Really can't go wrong in that corridor

[Radders]

Thanks all for the suggestions. This is a fun topic and something near and dear to my heart.   I should probably elaborate a bit on my situation to give you a better sense of what my goals are:

 

Currently, I work in NYC and live in the Hudson Valley, Southern Dutchess County to be more price, not far from KPOU.  Where I live now is a beautiful area, especially in the summer, and it is not terrible for snow, but it is not that great either.  I tend to average around 40-50" a year and usually get hit with at least one decent synoptic event a year if the conditions are ripe, but often the best stuff is further east, and in more recent years, it has been areas to the south cashing in - I have seen my fair share of whiffs that have sent me on roadtrips to DC (Feb 2010) and Boston (Feb 2013) to be at ground zero.  As a mountains and snow lover, where I live is never quite going to cut it and long term I don't see myself staying here. 

My goal is to follow my passion for winter weather and eventually get out of the hellish corporate work environment (my job gives me very little pleasure - in fact, I would go as far to say I borderline hate it) and head somewhere north of here to the mountains. 

Unfortunately, I am not in a position to pack the wagon and head north just yet - I have a fair few years of working ahead of me, but I am dea serious about making this happen...I am fortunate enough earn good money in the city so with my excess income, I figure, why not buy somewhere sooner rather than later, and get a head start on this rather than just spend money on things I don't need.   I figure that if I can find a 1500-2000 sq ft place, something quaint in a nice spot (1000+ in elevation is a must, but 1500+ more ideal)

I am happy to slowly put the work into the interior so I am not looking for something turn-ke.  What is more important is the location and for the place to have "good bones".  It would need to be something that is not too large that the overhead in upkeep is too much when I am not living there, but big enough so that eventually I could comfortably live there, host guests etc.  I would also like to have the option to rent it out to during certain periods,  so it needs to be in good proximity to skiing in the winter and summer activities in the warm season. It also doesn't have to be the perfect place to spend the rest of my life in, even if it is an initial stepping stone but it got me to move into the dream area, that will do just fine.

 

As for my snow preferences - That is a really tough question... Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love a raging blizzard with feet of snow (although sometimes the drama and build up is more thrilling than the event itself)  but I think if I had to weigh it up, I am more of a snow globe type - e.g. days and days of snow flakes (big fat dendrites) flying in the air (3-6, 6-12 type deals) with a good chance of the occasional monster hit (whether it be synoptic or upsloping).  If a major coastal storm of epic proportions was brewing, chances are, NYC or Boston would be in the mix and I have no issues with doing road trips to witness these events.  Given that 1) I will not be there full time, I need to maximize my chances of seeing snow and (2) as a skiier and wanting to be close to the slopes, I would want to have constant snow pack refreshers.

 

As far as accessibility is concerned, given that my ultimate goal is to find a place to eventually call home so I am not that hung up on travel time.  Everybody has their limit, so I would put 4 or 5 hours drive as the cap.  I think that makes northern NH/Maine a tough sell as a result.

 

In terms of the amount isolation and how far off the beaten track - I love being away from it all, but I also like the option of being really close to a populated area (e.g. a busy but picturesque Main St. with cafes/restaurants/bars/shops) and then all of the strip mall convenience stuff on the outskirts of town.   I go back and forth as to whether I want to be in walking distance (or very short car ride down a huge hill) to a Main St or if I am ok with the being a 10-15 minute drive away where I am not really living in the village -  Ideally, I would be like to be part of a village community and not feel totally isolated but I realize you get into trade-offs with elevation and snow potentially if you are living in a town.  Hopefully there is an easy compromise however.

 

From everything I have heard, the Stowe area is definitely up there on the top contender list.  I just returned from a long weekend in Jackson, NH and was definitely impressed with that area also (never been to the Mt Washington area in the winter though)

 

I should take a day trip to West Chesterfield to see how it is over there.. It is only 2 hours from me..

[weathafella]

Thanks all for the suggestions. This is a fun topic and something near and dear to my heart. I should probably elaborate a bit on my situation to give you a better sense of what my goals are:

Currently, I work in NYC and live in the Hudson Valley, Southern Dutchess County to be more price, not far from KPOU. Where I live now is a beautiful area, especially in the summer, and it is not terrible for snow, but it is not that great either. I tend to average around 40-50" a year and usually get hit with at least one decent synoptic event a year if the conditions are ripe, but often the best stuff is further east, and in more recent years, it has been areas to the south cashing in - I have seen my fair share of whiffs that have sent me on roadtrips to DC (Feb 2010) and Boston (Feb 2013) to be at ground zero. As a mountains and snow lover, where I live is never quite going to cut it and long term I don't see myself staying here.

My goal is to follow my passion for winter weather and eventually get out of the hellish corporate work environment (my job gives me very little pleasure - in fact, I would go as far to say I borderline hate it) and head somewhere north of here to the mountains.

Unfortunately, I am not in a position to pack the wagon and head north just yet - I have a fair few years of working ahead of me, but I am dea serious about making this happen...I am fortunate enough earn good money in the city so with my excess income, I figure, why not buy somewhere sooner rather than later, and get a head start on this rather than just spend money on things I don't need. I figure that if I can find a 1500-2000 sq ft place, something quaint in a nice spot (1000+ in elevation is a must, but 1500+ more ideal)

I am happy to slowly put the work into the interior so I am not looking for something turn-ke. What is more important is the location and for the place to have "good bones". It would need to be something that is not too large that the overhead in upkeep is too much when I am not living there, but big enough so that eventually I could comfortably live there, host guests etc. I would also like to have the option to rent it out to during certain periods, so it needs to be in good proximity to skiing in the winter and summer activities in the warm season. It also doesn't have to be the perfect place to spend the rest of my life in, even if it is an initial stepping stone but it got me to move into the dream area, that will do just fine.

As for my snow preferences - That is a really tough question... Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love a raging blizzard with feet of snow (although sometimes the drama and build up is more thrilling than the event itself) but I think if I had to weigh it up, I am more of a snow globe type - e.g. days and days of snow flakes (big fat dendrites) flying in the air (3-6, 6-12 type deals) with a good chance of the occasional monster hit (whether it be synoptic or upsloping). If a major coastal storm of epic proportions was brewing, chances are, NYC or Boston would be in the mix and I have no issues with doing road trips to witness these events. Given that 1) I will not be there full time, I need to maximize my chances of seeing snow and (2) as a skiier and wanting to be close to the slopes, I would want to have constant snow pack refreshers.

As far as accessibility is concerned, given that my ultimate goal is to find a place to eventually call home so I am not that hung up on travel time. Everybody has their limit, so I would put 4 or 5 hours drive as the cap. I think that makes northern NH/Maine a tough sell as a result.

In terms of the amount isolation and how far off the beaten track - I love being away from it all, but I also like the option of being really close to a populated area (e.g. a busy but picturesque Main St. with cafes/restaurants/bars/shops) and then all of the strip mall convenience stuff on the outskirts of town. I go back and forth as to whether I want to be in walking distance (or very short car ride down a huge hill) to a Main St or if I am ok with the being a 10-15 minute drive away where I am not really living in the village - Ideally, I would be like to be part of a village community and not feel totally isolated but I realize you get into trade-offs with elevation and snow potentially if you are living in a town. Hopefully there is an easy compromise however.

From everything I have heard, the Stowe area is definitely up there on the top contender list. I just returned from a long weekend in Jackson, NH and was definitely impressed with that area also (never been to the Mt Washington area in the winter though)

I should take a day trip to West Chesterfield to see how it is over there.. It is only 2 hours from me..

It sounds like spending a few weekends in different areas is doable. Try it and let us know what you think.

[Radders]

It sounds like spending a few weekends in different areas is doable. Try it and let us know what you think.

Yup, my goal is to spend this fall and winter doing a ton of weekend trips to figure it out. I tend to rush into things but in this instance, I am going to try and really do my homework.

 

I know it is not New England but does anybody know much about the Lake Placid/Saranac Lake area?  The 'Dacks are somewhat appealing since they are a straight shot up the I-87 and I can be there in under 4 hours...

 

I assume it is a similar climate there to the Northern Greens? 

[ORH_wxman]

If you love the "snow globe" with days and days of snow...then the northern Greens would definitely win...perhaps over to Pittsburg NH...but the latter is so remote, that it makes Pinkham Notch to Sunday River look like the I-95 corridor for civilization.

 

I've always been a bit partial to the the high QPF synoptic snowstorms and snowpack retention which is why I like the Pinkham Notch to SR corridor, but when deciphering all of those premium NNE snow sites, it is really just a matter of asthetics at that point. They all are exceptional for their winter weather.

[alex]

Awesome discussion! I'll chime in since I went through this in January when I bought a second home. I think for snow, Stowe is hard to beat and I would love a place there. However, the lower elevations there really don't retain snow that well, so go for higher ground in orographic snow areas. I ended up with the MWV, and here's why. 1) distance: I go there every weekend, and that 30-45 min shorter commute makes a difference to me, especially since I usually leave at dawn on Monday to make it into work. Worth the extra night in the mountains. 2) Stowe has tons to do, and I know it well since if was my go-to town till last January. But the MWN valley is hard to beat. Just as many restaurants etc, but the hiking, waterfalls, proximity to mount Washington, the lakes, etc is really amazing. 3) retention is great, and we were at 31F with rain while Stowe was melting away at 40. BUT the upslope at Stowe is just awesome, and I do miss it. We hardly get any. 4) while Stowe has a great winter rental market, I want to rent in the summer and use it in the winter, and with storyland, outlets etc the MWN valley is great for rentals. I've only rented in July and August and it has paid the mortgage so far this year.

So I ended up with a place up on te mountainside in Bartlett. Not a huge elevation - about 850ft - but the view is stunning, from Pinkham notch to mount Washington and out towards Crawford. Even better though, if you can shell out a few extra hundreds, there areas across the valley in Jackson at about 2K. That will probably be my next move. That said, I love the area, and it turned out to be even more amazing than I thought. But Stowe is amazing too and I wish we got more upslope.

[alex]

Also the skiing is great (wildcat is 20' away) but Vermont is much better for skiing IMO. But MWV is still a great compromise for all year round enjoyment and rent ability.

[alex]

Btw this is my place if anyone cares

http://www.vrbo.com/preview/555806

[Radders]

Awesome discussion! I'll chime in since I went through this in January when I bought a second home. I think for snow, Stowe is hard to beat and I would love a place there. However, the lower elevations there really don't retain snow that well, so go for higher ground in orographic snow areas. I ended up with the MWV, and here's why. 1) distance: I go there every weekend, and that 30-45 min shorter commute makes a difference to me, especially since I usually leave at dawn on Monday to make it into work. Worth the extra night in the mountains. 2) Stowe has tons to do, and I know it well since if was my go-to town till last January. But the MWN valley is hard to beat. Just as many restaurants etc, but the hiking, waterfalls, proximity to mount Washington, the lakes, etc is really amazing. 3) retention is great, and we were at 31F with rain while Stowe was melting away at 40. BUT the upslope at Stowe is just awesome, and I do miss it. We hardly get any. 4) while Stowe has a great winter rental market, I want to rent in the summer and use it in the winter, and with storyland, outlets etc the MWN valley is great for rentals. I've only rented in July and August and it has paid the mortgage so far this year.

So I ended up with a place up on te mountainside in Bartlett. Not a huge elevation - about 850ft - but the view is stunning, from Pinkham notch to mount Washington and out towards Crawford. Even better though, if you can shell out a few extra hundreds, there areas across the valley in Jackson at about 2K. That will probably be my next move. That said, I love the area, and it turned out to be even more amazing than I thought. But Stowe is amazing too and I wish we got more upslope.

Great info! Thank you. I think if I lived closer to Boston, the MWV would be a top contender.. The issue I have is the drive is nearly 6 hours from where I am now - I don't know if I could sustain that.   I loved Jackson and I will definitely go back there this winter, so I can see the snow season in full effect.

[Radders]

Btw this is my place if anyone cares

http://www.vrbo.com/preview/555806

 

Awesome, looks like you found a great place - Killer views as you said.

[tamarack]

Higher elevations from Pittsburg, NH to Greenville Maine if you like snow pack, Really can't go wrong in that corridor

 

And if lake opportunities in summer are a significant factor, it's hard to beat Rangeley or Greenville.  They probably have the best snowmobile infrastructure of all the places mentioned, as well.

 

Edit:  Given your current location, the eastern 'Dacks should be a player, as you noted - handy to Lake Placid, Schroon, even Champlain, and probably good for upslope plus it catches some leftover LES.

[dryslot]

And if lake opportunities in summer are a significant factor, it's hard to beat Rangeley or Greenville.

For sure, The Rangely lakes or Moosehead region you can't go wrong

[alex]

Awesome, looks like you found a great place - Killer views as you said.

Thanks - yes, really love it. I feel incredibly lucky.

[HIPPYVALLEY]

Underhill, VT...223" in town in 2010-2011. Can usually bank on a 18-36" type orographic event once a winter (sometimes more), and lots of 6-12" snowfalls. Easy access to Burlington, VT.

Northern Greens have a good deal of high snowfall towns...but everyone has their preference for spots.

We get a little less snowfall here on the east side, but have much better snow retention. Tons of restaurants and bars in Stowe, but going to be expensive to buy in this resort town. Warren/Waitsfield further south on RT 100 are good options too. All areas on RT 100 are usually within a quick trip to a ski area, with like 4-5 ski areas within an hour drive. Really close to I-89 exit in Waterbury too.

 

Underhill would also be high on my list due to the snowfall and access to Burlington. Doesn't Cambridge Vt do well also?

 

Yeah GC has Pittsfield and Albany. Both culture meccas..lol.  You guys and northern NH have much more "civilization"..not to mention both have giant lakes close by for summer activities.

 

MWN and Stowe are nice but gc gives easier proximity to Albany, Hartford, Brattleboro, even Boston and NYC. Less tourist trappy.

 

Honestly if you are talking GC W of Ct River and proximity to civilization Northampton has way more to do than Hartford, Pittsfield, Albany or Brattleboro or anywhere in Northern VT / NH  in terms of per capita quality restaurants, music, arts etc. 

 

That being said somewhere above 1200'  in Ashfield, Plainfield, Savoy would work but I think the best snow potential is NNE.

 

I have a particular affinity to the area from Pinkham Notch to Rangeley, ME. The snowfall retention there is always something special.

 

Yup, me too.  I would also include the Carrabassett Valley.  Isolated though.  Maybe the longest lasting snow in NNE.

[CT Rain]

Groton/New London didn't make the cut? 

[bobbutts]

Probably the lasting weather memory one winter of living in Pittsfield Vt. and commuting to Killington was the long streak of days with at least some snowfall.  If you like that kind of thing, it gets better as you head north too.

[CT Rain]

Underhill would also be high on my list due to the snowfall and access to Burlington. Doesn't Cambridge Vt do well also?

 

 

 

Honestly if you are talking GC W of Ct River and proximity to civilization Northampton has way more to do than Hartford, Pittsfield, Albany or Brattleboro or anywhere in Northern VT / NH  in terms of per capita quality restaurants, music, arts etc. 

 

That being said somewhere above 1200'  in Ashfield, Plainfield, Savoy would work but I think the best snow potential is NNE.

 

 

Yup, me too.  I would also include the Carrabassett Valley.  Isolated though.  Maybe the longest lasting snow in NNE.

 

The hill towns west of Northampton are great for snow and storms. My mom grew up there and it's a really nice area. 

 

Some of the towns in the Berkshires... New Marlborough, Otis, Monterey are gorgeous with plenty to do within a 20-30 minute drive. 

[Nittany88]

Yup, my goal is to spend this fall and winter doing a ton of weekend trips to figure it out. I tend to rush into things but in this instance, I am going to try and really do my homework.

 

I know it is not New England but does anybody know much about the Lake Placid/Saranac Lake area?  The 'Dacks are somewhat appealing since they are a straight shot up the I-87 and I can be there in under 4 hours...

 

I assume it is a similar climate there to the Northern Greens? 

 

Lake Placid is gorgeous. The climate is similar, and they get some upslope, but the layout of the mountain chain isn't as conducive for monster upslope storms. Plus if you like extreme cold, SLK (the airport, not the town) is one of the coldest places in radiational cooling setups in the northeast outside of some Maine locations. Skiing isn't as good though. You've got Whiteface, but that's about it, as the High Peaks area, outside of Lake Placid, isn't as nearly as built-up.

[dendrite]

Lots of hometown pride in this thread.

My personal preference would be what Will mentioned...Pinkham toward SR. I like my CAD, snow retention, and lower ratios.

[CoastalWx]

Lots of hometown pride in this thread.

My personal preference would be what Will mentioned...Pinkham toward SR. I like my CAD, snow retention, and lower ratios.

I feel the same. I will say that I've never experienced the constant snow globe refreshers that PF gets so I suppose there is some bias.

[dryslot]

Unless one rides in the back country in the winter, You really can't appreciate the incredible amount of snow pack in those areas in NE NH and NW Maine, 6-10' pack is not uncommon

[dendrite]

I feel the same. I will say that I've never experienced the constant snow globe refreshers that PF gets so I suppose there is some bias.

I think I'd like the upslope too as long as I get a few big events from it every winter. I can do without the 1-3" of daily fluff that compacts and sublimates about as fast as it falls.

[ORH_wxman]

I feel the same. I will say that I've never experienced the constant snow globe refreshers that PF gets so I suppose there is some bias.

 

I did out in Ithaca...I started craving the big synoptic qpf snow events again not long after, lol. We'd snow for like 25 out of 30 days but couldn't buy a big storm.

 

 

Obviously the northern greens can get huge storms too. But there was always something about the snow pack look out in the Pinkham to SR corridor that mesmorized me. Like these thick, high QPF layers of snow upon eachother that accumulate by late in the season. Again, it all ends up being more of an asthetic debate when you are talking about these premium winter weather locations in NNE.

 

Can't really go wrong anywhere from the spine of the greens (esp just east) over to the CAD snow retention kingdom in N NH over to W ME. Just avoid the downslope holes in between. I am also attracted to the look of icing events which are easier to get in that CAD region...something about the way the landscape looks. I'm not even talking about destructive ice...just the type where even after 6-10 inches of snow, it ends as a period of freezing drizzle or light freezing rain instead of rain...enough to put a light coating on everything.

[ORH_wxman]

Unless one rides in the back country in the winter, You really can't appreciate the incredible amount of snow pack in those areas in NE NH and NW Maine, 6-10' pack is not uncommon

 

 

For elevations under 1,000 feet, it is pretty amazing how deep it gets in that region. Obviously even more impressive higher up, but there's a good bit of land there with elevation under 1k that just piles it up in amazing amounts and holds it.

[powderfreak]

Btw this is my place if anyone cares

http://www.vrbo.com/preview/555806

 

That is one awesome view from that spot man...I just looked at Bartlett on a topographic map and yeah, that's right in the cold air damming corridor.  Great retention spot.

[dryslot]

For elevations under 1,000 feet, it is pretty amazing how deep it gets in that region. Obviously even more impressive higher up, but there's a good bit of land there with elevation under 1k that just piles it up in amazing amounts and holds it.

 

Yes it is amazing how those areas retain the pack until late spring, And its not very far from where i am here (20 miles or so NW) before you start to experience that in the foothill's region, I have rode in some of the 2,000' plus elevation range in those same areas and see rime ice on a regular basis as well as it pings off the helmet

[powderfreak]

I did out in Ithaca...I started craving the big synoptic qpf snow events again not long after, lol. We'd snow for like 25 out of 30 days but couldn't buy a big storm.

 

 

Obviously the northern greens can get huge storms too. But there was always something about the snow pack look out in the Pinkham to SR corridor that mesmorized me. Like these thick, high QPF layers of snow upon eachother that accumulate by late in the season. Again, it all ends up being more of an asthetic debate when you are talking about these premium winter weather locations in NNE.

 

Can't really go wrong anywhere from the spine of the greens (esp just east) over to the CAD snow retention kingdom in N NH over to W ME. Just avoid the downslope holes in between. I am also attracted to the look of icing events which are easier to get in that CAD region...something about the way the landscape looks. I'm not even talking about destructive ice...just the type where even after 6-10 inches of snow, it ends as a period of freezing drizzle or light freezing rain instead of rain...enough to put a light coating on everything.

 

Yeah we definitely do not hold snow as well, especially during months like last January when we couldn't buy a synoptic storm and then had 4 rainers...like I had 4-6" of mush in my yard while Dendrite was still piled up to the bottom branches of that tree in his webcam, lol. 

 

I've got a different perspective to due to the massive quantity of time spent on Mount Mansfield in the winter where the snow piles up pretty deep, so while at home we usually max out around 24-30" of depth, I'm still spending most of the daylight hours with 40" on the ground at the office and 80" up high or something.  So my view is going to be a little skewed as the lower elevations may not build large snowpacks, but I see plenty of it during the year.

 

Also, for me, I couldn't trade the powder skiing here for better retention at home (ie, if I were to move to say NH or ME).  I am absolutely convinced I ski a lot more fresh powder here in the Greens than I would in the Whites.  Those 1-4" snowfalls at home are more like 3-6"/6-12" type deals on the mountain...and the frequency of those snowfalls some year is incredible so you are essentially skiing powder for weeks on end. 

 

For the hardcore skier who just wants to ski powder in the glades, its hard to beat up here.  If however, you are looking for pure winter experience at home and could care less about the skiing, or aren't so obsessed with skiing powder, ME/NH areas can probably give you a better bang for your buck.