The ideal New England winter home (for maximum snow experience)

[Radders]

I am sure this question has been asked before, but what are folks thoughts on the most ideal place in New England to have a small house in the woods (likely in the mountains) that is optimally positioned to cash in on major snowfall (most important part lol) , in or close to a nice town with good bars/restaurants, close to skiing and other amenities, is beautiful in the summer, convenient to get to from major interstate highways etc and isn't going to cost a small fortune!???

I always hear that the east slopes of the berkshires is a good option but curious to hear what people think....

[Damage In Tolland]

Jackson, NH

[Radders]

Jackson, NH

Ha! That's where I have been this weekend and what got me thinking. I can imagine it being a pretty good spot.

[powderfreak]

Underhill, VT...223" in town in 2010-2011. Can usually bank on a 18-36" type orographic event once a winter (sometimes more), and lots of 6-12" snowfalls. Easy access to Burlington, VT.

Northern Greens have a good deal of high snowfall towns...but everyone has their preference for spots.

We get a little less snowfall here on the east side, but have much better snow retention. Tons of restaurants and bars in Stowe, but going to be expensive to buy in this resort town. Warren/Waitsfield further south on RT 100 are good options too. All areas on RT 100 are usually within a quick trip to a ski area, with like 4-5 ski areas within an hour drive. Really close to I-89 exit in Waterbury too.

[CoastalWx]

Where PF is or the E-SE slopes of the Whites are the best for retention. The west slopes of the Greens can get orographics, but also can loose snowpack easily in an inside runner. Where PF is in Stowe...you'll have more annual snow with upslope conditions more prevalent, but the E-SE areas in the Whites will probably still be best for retention and synoptics. Anything over 1k there is just money. Just a matter of what you like, but IMHO you can't lose in those spots. Even better spot...Jay Peak or Pittsburg NH....just be sure to prepare for a little more of a quieter life...lol. 

[weathafella]

For all categories (great snow but access to civilization) I'd pick parts of GC. Quantity alone and duration: Pittsburg ,NH.

[CoastalWx]

I don't know...Stowe and the MWN Valley have tons to do. Probably more than GC.

[powderfreak]

Where PF is or the E-SE slopes of the Whites are the best for retention. The west slopes of the Greens can get orographics, but also can loose snowpack easily in an inside runner. Where PF is in Stowe...you'll have more annual snow with upslope conditions more prevalent, but the E-SE areas in the Whites will probably still be best for retention and synoptics. Anything over 1k there is just money. Just a matter of what you like, but IMHO you can't lose in those spots. Even better spot...Jay Peak or Pittsburg NH....just be sure to prepare for a little more of a quieter life...lol.

Whites will definitely be better for synoptic storms and retention...though in a slow pattern there's going to more days without snowfall. The Greens up here can get much more frequent snowfall but it's usually in the 1-3" range. It's more snow globe type stuff where you can get flakes to fall like 25 days a month sometimes, even without adding up to all that much.

Honestly the best spot is Jay Peak to Pittsburg, NH...a cabin at like 1,500ft in that axis will do very well for both snowfall and retention.

[powderfreak]

For all categories (great snow but access to civilization) I'd pick parts of GC. Quantity alone and duration: Pittsburg ,NH.

In terms of access to civilization, you mean like proximity to what? How long would it take Pete to get to Boston or Albany? Or Springfield or CT Valley spots?

I really think spots in VT and NH have easier access to "civilization" than people think. Up here I can be in Montreal watching the Habs hockey game in 1.5-2hrs...or be in Boston in 3 hours. BTV is 45 minutes away and is like a Portsmouth type place. In NH I would have to think the Whites are pretty darn accessible via I-93 to "civilization". Not to mention most resort towns like North Conway, Woodstock, Bethel Stowe, Waitsfield, Killington, Ludlow, etc have much more restaurants/bars/shopping than people think.

The goal would be to find a secluded spot near a resort town, so that you can feel in the middle of no where, but can still pop into town to a nice Sushi dinner and catch some live music if you want. Or just have close access to a large Shaws Supermarket or something where you can find most of what you would ever need food-wise.

[CoastalWx]

In terms of access to civilization, you mean like proximity to what? How long would it take Pete to get to Boston or Albany? Or Springfield or CT Valley spots?

I really think spots in VT and NH have easier access to "civilization" than people think. Up here I can be in Montreal watching the Habs hockey game in 1.5-2hrs...or be in Boston in 3 hours. BTV is 45 minutes away and is like a Portsmouth type place. In NH I would have to think the Whites are pretty darn accessible via I-93 to "civilization". Not to mention most resort towns like North Conway, Woodstock, Bethel Stowe, Waitsfield, Killington, Ludlow, etc have much more restaurants/bars/shopping than people think.

The goal would be to find a secluded spot near a resort town, so that you can feel in the middle of no where, but can still pop into town to a nice Sushi dinner and catch some live music if you want. Or just have close access to a large Shaws Supermarket or something where you can find most of what you would ever need food-wise.

 

Yeah GC has Pittsfield and Albany. Both culture meccas..lol.  You guys and northern NH have much more "civilization"..not to mention both have giant lakes close by for summer activities.

[weathafella]

I don't know...Stowe and the MWN Valley have tons to do. Probably more than GC.

MWN and Stowe are nice but gc gives easier proximity to Albany, Hartford, Brattleboro, even Boston and NYC. Less tourist trappy.

[weathafella]

And Montreal access is great until you deal with the border coming back..lol.

[CoastalWx]

MWN and Stowe are nice but gc gives easier proximity to Albany, Hartford, Brattleboro, even Boston and NYC. Less tourist trappy.

 

MWN and Stowe are nice but gc gives easier proximity to Albany, Hartford, Brattleboro, even Boston and NYC. Less tourist trappy.

Yeah, but those places are too far away. And the rest, eh...I wouldn't move based on those places. No right or wrong answer..but the Berks are nice...I think NNE offers more, that's all. 

[Radders]

In terms of access to civilization, you mean like proximity to what? How long would it take Pete to get to Boston or Albany? Or Springfield or CT Valley spots?

I really think spots in VT and NH have easier access to "civilization" than people think. Up here I can be in Montreal watching the Habs hockey game in 1.5-2hrs...or be in Boston in 3 hours. BTV is 45 minutes away and is like a Portsmouth type place. In NH I would have to think the Whites are pretty darn accessible via I-93 to "civilization". Not to mention most resort towns like North Conway, Woodstock, Bethel Stowe, Waitsfield, Killington, Ludlow, etc have much more restaurants/bars/shopping than people think.

The goal would be to find a secluded spot near a resort town, so that you can feel in the middle of no where, but can still pop into town to a nice Sushi dinner and catch some live music if you want. Or just have close access to a large Shaws Supermarket or something where you can find most of what you would ever need food-wise.

Yeah I think you hit the nail on the head. I think the proximity to resort town amenities but deep enough into the woods that you feel away from it all. I do like the Stowe area a lot and you can't go wrong with the White Mountains. Being from the NYC area, GC is a little more convenient but I really haven't checked the area out much so don't know if it is too quiet. Whatever place I bought would need to be rentable in the summer and winter seasons hence I think just outside a resort area might be a better option.

[radarman]

There is quite a lot of culture in the Berks, especially in the summer given that it's a popular vacation spot for New Yorkers.  Tanglewood is the obvious example but there are others of course.  Also, from the east slope Northampton is certainly a nice place to have nearby, great people watching, good restaurants, with a music scene and Herrell's ice cream.  There really is no reason to go to Springfield (except for one delicious Indian restaurant in particular)... anything else you might need can be found in Hadley/Noho/Amherst...

 

All that said, I'd still pick just about anywhere in VT with the exception of Rutland or Brattleboro over GC, just to keep the commute shorter to the big hills.  Even if you were in a place like Burlington that tends to get shafted, you'd still have an exceptional winter experience.

[CoastalWx]

I would also venture the culinary scene is probably better in VT. 

[wxmanmitch]

I am sure this question has been asked before, but what are folks thoughts on the most ideal place in New England to have a small house in the woods (likely in the mountains) that is optimally positioned to cash in on major snowfall (most important part lol) , in or close to a nice town with good bars/restaurants, close to skiing and other amenities, is beautiful in the summer, convenient to get to from major interstate highways etc and isn't going to cost a small fortune!???

I always hear that the east slopes of the berkshires is a good option but curious to hear what people think....

 

The east slopes of the Berkshires do quite well, especially if above 1,500 feet in elevation and north of the Mass Pike. 2,000' and above at the crest of the Berkshires is probably the best as they will upslope in both easterly and westerly flows. The average annual snowfall at 2K is probably 100-110" per year. The high spots of the northern Berkshires are not terribly expensive either as they're really aren't any big ski areas that draw in a lot of people from the cities. The southern Berkshires are a different story though due to a lot of cultural attractions and 2nd home owners.

 

Although we don't get as much of the orographic magic that they get up in northern Vermont, we will still get some, especially if there's a moist NW flow. An advisory level upslope usually happens about once a winter while a warning level upslope is once every 3-4 winters. Most of the times, it's a coating to an inch - just enough to freshen up the existing snow cover and bring out the salt trucks. Sometimes lake effect streamers can make their way down here and we can get a quick inch or two from time to time, but as with the upslope, it's mostly just dustings.

 

Southern Vermont along route 9 is definitely a bit better than the Berkshires when it comes to snow. That area near Woodford probably averages at least 130" to 140" a winter, with maybe 150" since it goes up to 2.5K in elevation. Mt. Snow averages 156" per winter. While a little more isolated, you still have Bennington and Brattleboro. Mt. Snow is a big ski area and does have an area of more expensive real estate, particularly in Wilmington and Dover.

 

Snowfall increases as you head north up the Green Mountain spine with averages exceeding 200" per year by the time you get near Okemo. A lot of this is due to the increased amount of upslope snow in that direction.

[powderfreak]

Yeah, but those places are too far away. And the rest, eh...I wouldn't move based on those places. No right or wrong answer..but the Berks are nice...I think NNE offers more, that's all. 

 

That's whats great about America...you can move where ever you want and where ever that is, is likely the best place for you.  Everyone has their own opinions and priorties, you just gotta travel around and figure out whats best.

[powderfreak]

The east slopes of the Berkshires do quite well, especially if above 1,500 feet in elevation and north of the Mass Pike. 2,000' and above at the crest of the Berkshires is probably the best as they will upslope in both easterly and westerly flows. The average annual snowfall at 2K is probably 100-110" per year. The high spots of the northern Berkshires are not terribly expensive either as they're really aren't any big ski areas that draw in a lot of people from the cities. The southern Berkshires are a different story though due to a lot of cultural attractions and 2nd home owners.

 

Although we don't get as much of the orographic magic that they get up in northern Vermont, we will still get some, especially if there's a moist NW flow. An advisory level upslope usually happens about once a winter while a warning level upslope is once every 3-4 winters. Most of the times, it's a coating to an inch - just enough to freshen up the existing snow cover and bring out the salt trucks. Sometimes lake effect streamers can make their way down here and we can get a quick inch or two from time to time, but as with the upslope, it's mostly just dustings.

 

Southern Vermont along route 9 is definitely a bit better than the Berkshires when it comes to snow. That area near Woodford probably averages at least 130" to 140" a winter, with maybe 150" since it goes up to 2.5K in elevation. Mt. Snow averages 156" per winter. While a little more isolated, you still have Bennington and Brattleboro. Mt. Snow is a big ski area and does have an area of more expensive real estate, particularly in Wilmington and Dover.

 

Snowfall increases as you head north up the Green Mountain spine with averages exceeding 200" per year by the time you get near Okemo. A lot of this is due to the increased amount of upslope snow in that direction.

 

If I had to live farther south, I would love to live up on that plateau near Woodford, VT and Mt Snow.  That's a good size chunk of terrain above 2,000ft elevation (my college roommate grew up in Halifax, VT right near there at 1,900ft) and you know the weather gets much more interesting in general once you start hitting near that 2,000ft and higher level.  Wind, snow, t-storms, etc, its all more exciting being up that high.  Even the mountain cumulus clouds look like you can reach out and touch them being only a couple thousand feet off the deck instead of like 4-5kft overhead in the valleys.

 

Southern VT gets a good deal of synoptic snow, they are ok at retention for their latitude, but you have to be east of the crest.  They also end up with a decent amount of dying lake effect streamers and upslope snow in the right pattern.   I'd be curious as to how those mountain towns in SVT do with snowfall vs. say SW NH in the Monadnocks region...like Jaffery and environs. 

[nzucker]

That's whats great about America...you can move where ever you want and where ever that is, is likely the best place for you.  Everyone has their own opinions and priorties, you just gotta travel around and figure out whats best.

I don't see how this is particular to America...I think it's more about what kind of person you are and finding a place in which you feel at home.

[nzucker]

If I had to live farther south, I would love to live up on that plateau near Woodford, VT and Mt Snow.  That's a good size chunk of terrain above 2,000ft elevation (my college roommate grew up in Halifax, VT right near there at 1,900ft) and you know the weather gets much more interesting in general once you start hitting near that 2,000ft and higher level.  Wind, snow, t-storms, etc, its all more exciting being up that high.  Even the mountain cumulus clouds look like you can reach out and touch them being only a couple thousand feet off the deck instead of like 4-5kft overhead in the valleys.

 

Southern VT gets a good deal of synoptic snow, they are ok at retention for their latitude, but you have to be east of the crest.  They also end up with a decent amount of dying lake effect streamers and upslope snow in the right pattern.   I'd be curious as to how those mountain towns in SVT do with snowfall vs. say SW NH in the Monadnocks region...like Jaffery and environs. 

I think the elevation is a little higher in terms of inhabited areas of Southern VT vs the Monadnocks. Having lived in Rindge in SW NH, I remember most populated areas being in the 1100-1300' range...whereas that plateau near Halifax and extending northward gets up near 2000'. I also think the further west you are, the more likely you are to benefit from lake effect and orographics. I think Rindge averages around 80" at 1200' whereas some of the locales you mentioned are probably in the 110-120" range.

[powderfreak]

I don't see how this is particular to America...I think it's more about what kind of person you are and finding a place in which you feel at home.

 

We have so many cool places to live that we can freely move to.  Other countries have that too, I guess.  But not to the extent of America...from tropical beaches, to mountains, to plains, desert, etc.  I bet we have some of the more diverse climates where you can live in one country.

[ORH_wxman]

I have a particular affinity to the area from Pinkham Notch to Rangeley, ME. The snowfall retention there is always something special.

[powderfreak]

I have a particular affinity to the area from Pinkham Notch to Rangeley, ME. The snowfall retention there is always something special.

 

Speaking of being far from civilization... lol.

[CoastalWx]

The east side of the Tolland Massif.

[powderfreak]

I have a particular affinity to the area from Pinkham Notch to Rangeley, ME. The snowfall retention there is always something special.

 

But yeah, that axis is probably the snow retention capital of the East.  They have higher terrain to their SE and to their NW, so it doesn't matter which way any warm air would come from, there's a low level barrier.

 

[CoastalWx]

Sugarloaf FTW.

[CoastalWx]

Although I am impressed by the pics I saw from Pittsburg and the CT lakes region. Snowmobiling in May FTW.

[J.Spin]

I am sure this question has been asked before, but what are folks thoughts on the most ideal place in New England to have a small house in the woods (likely in the mountains) that is optimally positioned to cash in on major snowfall (most important part lol), in or close to a nice town with good bars/restaurants, close to skiing and other amenities, is beautiful in the summer, convenient to get to from major interstate highways etc and isn't going to cost a small fortune!???

 

I just saw this thread, and the discussion has been great - this has got to be one of the most fun topics out there.  This type of discussion often comes up on ski forums, where the whole country, or even world, may be in play, so the fact that you locked in the regional parameter (New England) makes it a lot easier.  If “major snowfall” was the only factor in finding a house, assuming that means total and/or frequency of snowfall and isn’t somehow concerned with the absolute pinnacle of snow retention or focused on optimizing big synoptic storms, I think the decision would be simple:  just find a place at elevation in the Northern Greens.  It’s hard to argue with the numbers there, although if any forum was capable of doing it, this would be the one.

 

The challenge of course is how much to weigh all of the individual factors in your equation, and it looks like you’ve got roughly six or so of them listed.  If the bolded part in the quoted text above is really the most important as indicated, and the interpretation of “major snowfall” is correct, I think that keeps the decision easy with respect to the Northern Greens.  Even if that factor is just weighed the heaviest, and all the other factors are taken into account, I still can’t think of a better spot than the Stowe area.

 

So I’m going to argue that in terms of legitimately viable places that meet your criteria, an appropriately positioned site in the Stowe area will take sole possession of the top spot in the “major snowfall” category.  Now laying claim to the top position in what is indicated as the most important category has got to put a town well up in the running, but I’d say that the Stowe area can lay claim to besting all other sites in not just one, but two of the indicated categories.  The second one is “a nice town with good bars/restaurants”.  Unless one has to attend the opera or major league sporting events every week, the lack of amenities in many mountain resort towns is really overblown.  And, when it comes to eateries and Stowe, it’s especially overblown.  Now the following statement is from GoStowe.com, and I can’t attest to how they got their numbers, but you have to think someone would call them on it if they were making it up:

 

“In New England, only Boston and Providence boast more award-winning dining establishments than our quaint town of 4,300 residents”

 

If one thinks about the size of Stowe relative to all the hundreds and hundreds of cities and towns in New England, that statement is pretty stunning.  Whatever the case, for legitimate mountain towns in the running in this instance, it would take a very strong argument to say that Stowe doesn’t also take the top spot in the “nice town with good bars/restaurants” category.  On a related note, I can attest to the fact that by happenstance we were lucky enough to get to eat at both the Burlington and Waterbury “Hen of the Wood” sites in the past few weeks, and the quality of the food was… simply ridiculous.  I can’t say that I’m any sort of real “foodie”, but if anyone is in the area and can get in for dinner, it’s worth the experience.

 

I think the only real factor weighing Stowe down in your entire list is the financial one, but unfortunately that’s typically going to become a mutually exclusive factor if a place is dominant or very competitive in so many of the others.  The thing is, I know many regular folks with typical jobs that live in Stowe, so clearly it can be done.  Fortunately, we’re not talking about Aspen here; Stowe is still a very much livable place.  The fact that you’re looking for a “small house in the woods” vs. something directly in town, is probably a benefit.  You don’t have to get too far outside Stowe proper to find some very reasonable stuff, and you can still be minutes to town and all the amenities.

 

When I first read your post, I thought it was for a place to move to vs. a second home, because you didn’t specify proximity to a certain location, just general interstate access.  But if this is meant to be a second home with lots and lots of travel to and fro, then proximity to X (NYC?) may be a huge factor.  If that’s the deal, then I could see how places farther south would get a huge bump in consideration.  I suspect that distance factor is one of the things keeping second home ownership in the resort towns of the Northern Greens at least somewhat in check, but if snowfall really trumps everything else in this case, it’s going to be hard to get too far south and compete.

 

Since you did specify the snowfall as such a key (indeed, most important) factor in your location, one final thing I’ll mention is to think about specifically what you’re looking for in terms of snowfall.  Are you looking for the “snow globe” atmosphere, where there’s always mood snow falling?  Do you want a combination of denser synoptic snow and champagne fluff?  Do you want the utmost in snow preservation?  Do you want the deepest snowpack possible at the house?  Do you want just a few larger synoptic storms a season vs. constant snowfall?  Do you want lots of storms?  After a few seasons on American Weather, I do get the impression that areas farther to the south and east are considered the hot spots for accumulations in synoptic coastal storms, but in the weather patterns we see most winters, I’m not sure if the liquid or snowfall data actually bear that out.   By the time big storm cycles wrap up, the ski resorts in the Northern Greens often have some of the highest accumulations relative to other mountains in the region.  I guess those numbers would be a good topic for discussion in this thread or elsewhere.  In terms of relatively “big” storms, if I run the numbers for here at our valley location in Waterbury using my eight seasons of snowfall data, I get an average of 4-5 storms of 10”+, and 1 storm of 20”+ per season.  For storm/snowfall frequency the average comes in at 47 storms per season, and close to 100 days with some form of snowfall.  Based on discussions with PF, other spots surrounding Stowe and fairly close to the spine would be pretty similar, especially something with elevation.  If snow retention and snowpack are actually big factors in the equation, I’d say that there are certain areas in New Hampshire and Maine that are likely the best in the region, but compared to a place with elevation on the east slopes of the Northern Greens, any differences are going to be pretty marginal in most seasons.  If one is looking for a place to experience “major snowfall”, and they’re only going to be there on weekends etc., I’d want to stack the deck in my favor with a place that gets not just the big storms, but the most frequent snowfall.  Ultimately, it depends on how important that snowfall parameter really is in the overall scheme.

 

Based on where I live, I don’t really think that I can consider myself unbiased with respect to my comments on this topic, but I’ve tried to use some actual data where I could to make a case for why the Stowe area is such a strong, and essentially top, contender in this case.

[moneypitmike]

West Chesterfield, MA