#NoPoles Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 UGH I'M TORN. Should I head to Magic Mountain or Killington for a long day trip on Saturday? Or should I go up to Cannon where I can stay over night for free....thoughts? i love cannon! so i will always recommend it...but i have always wanted to ski magic, just haven't had the chance yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravitylover Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Y'all heard about this? http://thebalsamsresort.com/vision/ski-expansion/ Would be nice to bring the place back to glory. Well, it's not like Les hasn't had success expanding other areas. From that map it seems that it would be more than just back to it's former "glory." Unfortunately I have a feeling that it's too remote and I don't know that enough people would travel that far for it. I like the sound of a 500 acre glade though. What are the snowfall stats for that area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreaves Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Well, it's not like Les hasn't had success expanding other areas. From that map it seems that it would be more than just back to it's former "glory." Unfortunately I have a feeling that it's too remote and I don't know that enough people would travel that far for it. I like the sound of a 500 acre glade though. What are the snowfall stats for that area? Only anecdotal but that area gets absolutely crushed. I've been up there a couple of times in winter and it seems that even when its marginal here that they have decent snow. As for Otten, I'm no expert but I believe that his track record could probably be described as mixed. ASC didn't really survive that long and I'm not sure they fulfilled the lofty promises made at many of the areas they bought. On the other hand, they did build some big new lodges at Killington and Mt. Snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whineminster Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Only anecdotal but that area gets absolutely crushed. I've been up there a couple of times in winter and it seems that even when its marginal here that they have decent snow. As for Otten, I'm no expert but I believe that his track record could probably be described as mixed. ASC didn't really survive that long and I'm not sure they fulfilled the lofty promises made at many of the areas they bought. On the other hand, they did build some big new lodges at Killington and Mt. Snow. Yeah he did a great job with Sunday River, but it think he took on too much to fast, so when a few resorts started to go south it took the whole thing down with it. I think that area of NH just holds on to snow so much longer than other areas. The only thing I would be worried about is if they could get enough vertical....don't really recall the topographic relief to be anything to write home about in that area. If it was really 2,000+ acres, with good glades and snow...i'd drive the extra hour and half Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkO Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 A destination resort will need excellent skiing to get the people there. It's around the same latitude/distance as Jay and Sugarloaf. A solid 3-4 hr drive for many, although it might be a day trip for some. I'd be willing to check it out being about 90 minutes form the cabin. I wonder how they do in terms of natural snow compared to Jay and 'loaf? Do they cash in on backside upslope events? I'm sure Les is taking advantage of those gov't backed loans for revitalizing depressed areas. I forget the name of the program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sankaty Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Yeah he did a great job with Sunday River, but it think he took on too much to fast, so when a few resorts started to go south it took the whole thing down with it. I think that area of NH just holds on to snow so much longer than other areas. The only thing I would be worried about is if they could get enough vertical....don't really recall the topographic relief to be anything to write home about in that area. If it was really 2,000+ acres, with good glades and snow...i'd drive the extra hour and half Vertical was my first thought. It's a little odd that they mention the base elevation on the Web site but nowhere list the vertical or summit elevation. Looks like the old resort only had about 1000' vertical. It would be a little hard to justify the drive without another 600' at least. I guess if they could routinely deliver on 1000' of great glade skiing it would still have some appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whineminster Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 A destination resort will need excellent skiing to get the people there. It's around the same latitude/distance as Jay and Sugarloaf. A solid 3-4 hr drive for many, although it might be a day trip for some. I'd be willing to check it out being about 90 minutes form the cabin. I wonder how they do in terms of natural snow compared to Jay and 'loaf? Do they cash in on backside upslope events? I'm sure Les is taking advantage of those gov't backed loans for revitalizing depressed areas. I forget the name of the program. I know USDA Rural Development gives out a lot of loans to depressed rural areas. Apparently Coos County is one of the poorest in the Country, which would help their cause of revitalizing the place I would think. I'm not sure how much annual snow they get, but I know people on the board always rave about how the place is a snow magnet. Especially Coastal/ORH/PF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 A destination resort will need excellent skiing to get the people there. It's around the same latitude/distance as Jay and Sugarloaf. A solid 3-4 hr drive for many, although it might be a day trip for some. I'd be willing to check it out being about 90 minutes form the cabin. I wonder how they do in terms of natural snow compared to Jay and 'loaf? Do they cash in on backside upslope events? I'm sure Les is taking advantage of those gov't backed loans for revitalizing depressed areas. I forget the name of the program. I bet they'd be somewhere between Jays snowfall and Sugarloafs. Say split the difference and you end up with maybe 230-260-ish? Though just now looking at it on a topo map, I bet they do considerably more snow than Sugarloaf, closer to the Northern Greens numbers...as it looks like they may get a lot of those 4-8" regular orographic events. I bet that's a very snowy location. As far as the skiing goes, I can't find anything in that area that would support more than 1,500 vertical feet...and a lot of that expansion looks to be done in zones with like 700-1200 vertical foot runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx2fish Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I bet they'd be somewhere between Jays snowfall and Sugarloafs. Say split the difference and you end up with maybe 230-260-ish? Though just now looking at it on a topo map, I bet they do considerably more snow than Sugarloaf, closer to the Northern Greens numbers...as it looks like they may get a lot of those 4-8" regular orographic events. I bet that's a very snowy location. As far as the skiing goes, I can't find anything in that area that would support more than 1,500 vertical feet...and a lot of that expansion looks to be done in zones with like 700-1200 vertical foot runs. Its only 5-6 miles south of Diamond Pond (~2300ft) as the crow flies. Diamond Pond gets absolutely crushed, there was a COOP there for a few years that averaged 230". Theres alot of mesoscale variables up there, but I dont see how they dont do real well. That whole range that runs from from Diamond pond northeast up to Pittsburg gets hammered. Ive driven through Dixville Notch a few times and the mountains aren't terribly high, but the base elevation is near 2000ft I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 A problem with that resort location aside from perhaps a lack of vertical is that with a base elevation that high in that geographic area, it's gonna be osbcenely cold. Cold is a way of life for New England skiing, but this will be on the extreme end of the spectrum. If you have a base elevation that high with the associated cold, you better have some vertical with it. Stowe offers the big vertical with high base elevation...so does Killington (and KMart is further south anyway...not as cold as far N NH). Maybe their glades will be a big attraction...or perhaps they can offer some great late season skiing there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 A problem with that resort location aside from perhaps a lack of vertical is that with a base elevation that high in that geographic area, it's gonna be osbcenely cold. Cold is a way of life for New England skiing, but this will be on the extreme end of the spectrum. If you have a base elevation that high with the associated cold, you better have some vertical with it. Stowe offers the big vertical with high base elevation...so does Killington (and KMart is further south anyway...not as cold as far N NH). Maybe their glades will be a big attraction...or perhaps they can offer some great late season skiing there. Yeah I don't really see it as a viable plan...or at least thinking you'd get any return on that investment in the next like 15-20 years. The amount of money spent to build that would be enormous. I just don't see how that would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Yeah I don't really see it as a viable plan...or at least thinking you'd get any return on that investment in the next like 15-20 years. The amount of money spent to build that would be enormous. I just don't see how that would work. If it was easy to get to, they could tout their nearly continuous great conditions (I'm sure the snow there would be epic)...but it's a hell of a hike to get there, so they need to offer more than just great snow and 1000-12 feet of vertical. Are there any peaks there that offer 1500+ feet? That might work, but it seems like a stretch. Seems like a great place to have a smaller ski mountain with a low overhead and cater to a select niche, rather than spending tons of money to try and turn it into a larger resort destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreaves Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 If it was easy to get to, they could tout their nearly continuous great conditions (I'm sure the snow there would be epic)...but it's a hell of a hike to get there, so they need to offer more than just great snow and 1000-12 feet of vertical. Are there any peaks there that offer 1500+ feet? That might work, but it seems like a stretch. Seems like a great place to have a smaller ski mountain with a low overhead and cater to a select niche, rather than spending tons of money to try and turn it into a larger resort destination. I was wondering if they might actually be going the completely private route like Haystack or that place in Wyoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx2fish Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 If it was easy to get to, they could tout their nearly continuous great conditions (I'm sure the snow there would be epic)...but it's a hell of a hike to get there, so they need to offer more than just great snow and 1000-12 feet of vertical. Are there any peaks there that offer 1500+ feet? That might work, but it seems like a stretch. Seems like a great place to have a smaller ski mountain with a low overhead and cater to a select niche, rather than spending tons of money to try and turn it into a larger resort destination. Its a haul getting there, you can basically shoot up route 3 to Pittsburg in the same amount of time. Theres not much else close to the Balsams, its more or less just snowmobile country between Pittsburg and Errol. I think it has been more of a niche place in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreaves Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Its a haul getting there, you can basically shoot up route 3 to Pittsburg in the same amount of time. Theres not much else close to the Balsams, its more or less just snowmobile country between Pittsburg and Errol. I think it has been more of a niche place in the past.Have you been to Snodeo at Diamond Pond? That place gets absolutely crushed with snow, as you've already mentioned. The Balsams has a nice Donald Ross designed golf course too, which is why I'm wondering if they may make it a private club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx2fish Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Have you been to Snodeo at Diamond Pond? That place gets absolutely crushed with snow, as you've already mentioned. The Balsams has a nice Donald Ross designed golf course too, which is why I'm wondering if they may make it a private club. Ive never been Snodeo, one year I'd like to. I usually get up to Pittsburg at least once a winter to snowmobile, but havent made it up there yet this year. I love it up there around the First CT Lake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyewall Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I had a blast at Stowe! Powderfreak your mountain is worth every penny . I skied until my legs gave out pretty much. I will share some pics later. A bluebird day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powderfreak Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I had a blast at Stowe! Powderfreak your mountain is worth every penny . I skied until my legs gave out pretty much. I will share some pics later. A bluebird day! You should've told me you were out there! Would've definitely met up for a run. Yeah, it would be really hard to have a bad time with weather like today, haha. Its like Colorado with great snow conditions and bluebird skies, only a light breeze at the summit, and just overall comfortable weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyewall Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Yeah we need to exchange information so next time we can make that happen and yes it was what I imagined Colorado is like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N. OF PIKE Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I had a blast at Stowe! Powderfreak your mountain is worth every penny . I skied until my legs gave out pretty much. I will share some pics later. A bluebird day! awesome, what a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whineminster Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I'll be tearing up Stowe on Sunday, worth an overnight trip versus a day to Magic. Last year I went and it was icy as it had just rained, but I'm betting it'll be 100x better this go-around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whineminster Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 If it was easy to get to, they could tout their nearly continuous great conditions (I'm sure the snow there would be epic)...but it's a hell of a hike to get there, so they need to offer more than just great snow and 1000-12 feet of vertical. Are there any peaks there that offer 1500+ feet? That might work, but it seems like a stretch. Seems like a great place to have a smaller ski mountain with a low overhead and cater to a select niche, rather than spending tons of money to try and turn it into a larger resort destination. Well I think what they would plan on offering is the whole "ski village" experience, where the Gondola would go down through the village and such, lodging at all different points around the resort. Probably similar to what you see in Europe where all the little villages are interconnected by lifts and you can ski all different mountains without driving somewhere...just my vision of it anyway. Personally I don't like Sunday River as I don't find the terrain particularly challenging, and the vertical leaves quite a bit to be desired, but it's the second busiest resort in New England, so perhaps this would be similar in it's design except with much more glades and snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whineminster Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Well I think what they would plan on offering is the whole "ski village" experience, where the Gondola would go down through the village and such, lodging at all different points around the resort. Probably similar to what you see in Europe where all the little villages are interconnected by lifts and you can ski all different mountains without driving somewhere...just my vision of it anyway. Personally I don't like Sunday River as I don't find the terrain particularly challenging, and the vertical leaves quite a bit to be desired, but it's the second busiest resort in New England, so perhaps this would be similar in it's design except with much more glades and snow. Not to mention Sunday River is also kind of a bee-yatch to get to as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Not to mention Sunday River is also kind of a bee-yatch to get to as well This proposed mountain would have like half the vertical of SR though...even if you only count like Oz or Jordan bowl to their base of chairs, they still give you like 1300-1600 vertical. The Balsems seem like they would be hard to give you 1,000 on one hard run, but maybe they have a spot or two for a single hard run of 1400 or so. Also, SR isn't a massive resort type ski area with the whole ski base village. They have the few hotels near the bottom and some condos and that's it. I love the Oz glades as an aside...you must be pretty picky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I love the Oz glades as an aside...you must be pretty picky. I know ,right? chutzpah and hard ball as well as shock wave are no slouch either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wx2fish Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 This proposed mountain would have like half the vertical of SR though...even if you only count like Oz or Jordan bowl to their base of chairs, they still give you like 1300-1600 vertical. The Balsems seem like they would be hard to give you 1,000 on one hard run, but maybe they have a spot or two for a single hard run of 1400 or so. Also, SR isn't a massive resort type ski area with the whole ski base village. They have the few hotels near the bottom and some condos and that's it. I love the Oz glades as an aside...you must be pretty picky. I was looking at their "proposed" map and they have some lifts down along route 26 east of the notch that look like they may be 1500-1700ft heading up to 3200-3400ft or so.Their proposed map is pretty ambitious itll be curious to see how it comes along. They will definitely need to market it as an experience because that is not a convenient place to get to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Vertical 1 Killington Vermont 3050 2 Sugarloaf Maine 2820 3 Sugarbush Vermont 2650 4 Smugglers' Vermont 2610 5 Stowe Vermont 2360 6 Sunday River Maine 2340 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I know ,right? chutzpah and hard ball as well as shock wave are no slouch either Yeah the top of whitecap has steeps comparable to any other high end trails in NE. If you want more cliffs though then I could see how SR is lacking in that department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORH_wxman Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I was looking at their "proposed" map and they have some lifts down along route 26 east of the notch that look like they may be 1500-1700ft heading up to 3200-3400ft or so.Their proposed map is pretty ambitious itll be curious to see how it comes along. They will definitely need to market it as an experience because that is not a convenient place to get to. Yeah if they can get some 1400-1800 verticals on mostly steep trails (rather than just the first 800-1000 feet or so) then that is a selling point. They'll need to have a large beginner area too I would imagine if they are going to try and market with the big boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whineminster Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Vertical 1 Killington Vermont 3050 2 Sugarloaf Maine 2820 3 Sugarbush Vermont 2650 4 Smugglers' Vermont 2610 5 Stowe Vermont 2360 6 Sunday River Maine 2340 8 Yeah but for SR is that a continuous drop on one run? Or from the highest point to the lowest? Sugarbush is mount Ellen so it's top to bottom in one run, which Is what matters IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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