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Early discussion Winter 2014/15


SACRUS

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Maps and discussion on the brand new (Sep) JAMSTEC run over on the MA thread. Bottom line points...

1) warmer than Aug run - now warmer than normal for NYC for winter

2) but cold not far away, warm anomalies not intense, and overall pattern looks good. Also leans wet, so probably not an atrocious winter for us... if u take it at face value as being correct, but...

3) the Sep run last year was a disaster (torchfest predicted)

4) fwiw, MAM is shown to be brutal. So, that could support wintry precip through March.

Model output can be found here:

http://www.jamstec.go.jp/frcgc/research/d1/iod/e/seasonal/outlook.html

Yeh Last Sept . 

post-7472-0-25208700-1411566715_thumb.pn

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I think if the two sleet storms in 2006-07 were snow there would have been close to 30" that year...

Yeah those storms were obscene. 4" of sleet here for both events. There was a nice snow squall at the end of sleet fest one that dropped an additional 1.5" on top of the 4" of sleet that ended up at least partially salvaging that event here. But I'll never forget those GFS QPF maps showing all purple with 850's well south of the area just 48hrs before the event. That storm truly hurt.

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I think if the two sleet storms in 2006-07 were snow there would have been close to 30" that year...

 

That was a bad snow year everywhere...

 

<Image per permission of board member NorthShoreWx>

post-747-0-89981500-1411914220_thumb.gif

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That was a bad snow year everywhere...

 

<Image per permission of board member NorthShoreWx>

 

 

 

Yep, craptastic winter for sure. I had more sleet accumulation than total snowfall. Some parts of my county had over 7" of sleet for that winter.

 

My map for 2006-07 agrees nicely w/ Northshorewx. Maximum totals in NJ were at High Point, around 30-35" and well below average.

 

snowfall-2006-07.png

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Yep, craptastic winter for sure. I had more sleet accumulation than total snowfall. Some parts of my county had over 7" of sleet for that winter.

 

My map for 2006-07 agrees nicely w/ Northshorewx. Maximum totals in NJ were at High Point, around 30-35" and well below average.

 

 

 

NorthShoreWx gave me carte blanche to post his maps as long as properly attributed so...

 

post-747-0-49874300-1411921842_thumb.gif

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I don't know how to post a picture but if you want I'll give you the link to see the winter 2014-15 forecast map

Go to: http://liveweatherblogs.com/index.php/community/groups/viewdiscussion/1038-winter-2014-15-forecast?groupid=40

Just in case you didn't go to the blog, I think this winter expect another very snowy winter for Mid Atlantic and Northeast. I don't think it'll be as cold as the polar vortex will focus a bit more west from last year's winter, just north of International falls, MN. Snow could the most snow could be found in the Oklahoma state, New Mexico, Wyoming, Nebraska, Kansas State, Kentucky, and Pennsylvania. Any state that's above that blue line in the image above could get snow but the closer you are to the blue line the more snow you may get. Expected snowfall for this winter for major cities: Philadelphia: 48 inches, NYC: 54, D.C: 36, Cleveland:72 Birmingham: 14, OK city: 32, Denver: 50, Saint Louis: 43, Chicago: 44, Detroit: 47, Minneapolis: 60 Amarillo 49, Little Rock: 12, Richmond: 26, Pittsburgh: 56, Allentown, PA 76, Hartford: 68, Montauk: 33, Albany: 64, Syracuse: 102, Boston: 59, Caribou: 70, Atlanta: 3, Salt Lake City: 51, Scottsbluff: 68, Marquette: 109, Seattle: 5, Portland: 4, Cut BankL 43, Yellowstone National Park: 98 inches.

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I don't know how to post a picture but if you want I'll give you the link to see the winter 2014-15 forecast map

Go to: http://liveweatherblogs.com/index.php/community/groups/viewdiscussion/1038-winter-2014-15-forecast?groupid=40

Just in case you didn't go to the blog, I think this winter expect another very snowy winter for Mid Atlantic and Northeast. I don't think it'll be as cold as the polar vortex will focus a bit more west from last year's winter, just north of International falls, MN. Snow could the most snow could be found in the Oklahoma state, New Mexico, Wyoming, Nebraska, Kansas State, Kentucky, and Pennsylvania. Any state that's above that blue line in the image above could get snow but the closer you are to the blue line the more snow you may get. Expected snowfall for this winter for major cities: Philadelphia: 48 inches, NYC: 54, D.C: 36, Cleveland:72 Birmingham: 14, OK city: 32, Denver: 50, Saint Louis: 43, Chicago: 44, Detroit: 47, Minneapolis: 60 Amarillo 49, Little Rock: 12, Richmond: 26, Pittsburgh: 56, Allentown, PA 76, Hartford: 68, Montauk: 33, Albany: 64, Syracuse: 102, Boston: 59, Caribou: 70, Atlanta: 3, Salt Lake City: 51, Scottsbluff: 68, Marquette: 109, Seattle: 5, Portland: 4, Cut BankL 43, Yellowstone National Park: 98 inches.

Only 98 inches for Yellowstone? Don't they have that much already by this time of year? Lol, j/k. Nice forecast and hoping you verify.

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How come CFSv2 monthly outlooks show such few  below normal temperature areas in the US (if any till March), while major forecasters are calling for cold and snow.   I can see the chance for above normal precip. in these same charts---but will it be snow?  I know good snow cover begets cold, but above normal 500mb's. seem to plague us for most of winter and before too.   Note next 2 weeks could have above normal 2mT and heights,. and weeklies promise same for next 5 weeks.   What gives?

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How come CFSv2 monthly outlooks show such few  below normal temperature areas in the US (if any till March), while major forecasters are calling for cold and snow.   I can see the chance for above normal precip. in these same charts---but will it be snow?  I know good snow cover begets cold, but above normal 500mb's. seem to plague us for most of winter and before too.   Note next 2 weeks could have above normal 2mT and heights,. and weeklies promise same for next 5 weeks.   What gives?

Global baseline is shifting up, despite how ferociously others will deny this.

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How come CFSv2 monthly outlooks show such few  below normal temperature areas in the US (if any till March), while major forecasters are calling for cold and snow.   I can see the chance for above normal precip. in these same charts---but will it be snow?  I know good snow cover begets cold, but above normal 500mb's. seem to plague us for most of winter and before too.   Note next 2 weeks could have above normal 2mT and heights,. and weeklies promise same for next 5 weeks.   What gives?

Because it's wrong? 

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Past performance doesn't translate to future success.

 

Someone smart once said that, lol.

 

But I'm responding to someone that said a prediction is wrong before the forecast period even begun. So all we have to go on is past performance. That's what verification scores are for and why the Euro is considered the best.

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Global baseline is shifting up, despite how ferociously others will deny this.

As I've suggested in replies to Mid-Atlantic posts you've made, I feel you've been overestimating how much the warmer global baseline is influencing things. The globe is only ~2 degrees F warmer than it was 100+ years ago and only a fraction of that on average over the last decade or so.

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If past performance of the CFS past 15 days is any indicator, you might want to flip a coin. I downloaded their PowerPoint with their own verifications  from 1982-2009. 

 

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/people/mchen/CFSv2FCST/monthly/images/CFSv2HCSTmonthlyForecastSkill.pptx

 

Oh I believe you it's not that good, as is every long term forecasting model. But you can't say it's wrong when the forecast period hasn't even started. 

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