BuffaloWeather Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I see the couplet on his posted radar image, clear as day. How many scans it was there, Tony would have to tell you as I don't have access to the radar product he used, but I'm guessing it was there more than a couple scans. In MY mind, THAT is a "radar-detected' tornado. Now, not sure if anyone has seen this or not, I just found it on facebook as I sat down to eat after working outside most of the day: http://www.wzzm13.com/story/news/local/metro/2014/07/07/why-no-warning-issued-with-kentwood-tornado/12315353/ Basically, it says: GRAND RAPIDS (WZZM) -- Meteorologists from the National Weather Service addressed the media late Monday afternoon following Sunday night's EF-1 tornado touchdown in Kent County. Many residents are wondering why there was no warning or even a watch issued with this storm. The twister, rated a high-end EF1, had winds of 100-110 miles per hour when it struck at 10:20 p.m. near 64th Street and Burlingame Ave. SW. It was on the ground for 10 minutes and 6.25 miles and was 900-1,200 feet at its widest, according to the NWS. It lifted around 10:30 p.m. near the area of Breton Road and 28th Street SE. RELATED: EF-1 tornado touchdown confirmed in Kent County National Weather Service meteorologists say they couldn't detect the twister because it was hidden and rain-wrapped. Meteorologist Daniel Cobb says the tornado also developed behind the radar screen. He added the twister was also unusual because it was a spin-up tornado, meaning instead of descending towards the ground, like the large funnels you see in the Great Plains, this one started on the ground. "The time the radar detects the velocity of this one, it's on the ground. It developed right at the base of the ground, and then grew upward, the opposite way it's supposed to happen," he said. Cobb says the worst damage was from the U.S. 131 and M-6 interchange to 44th Street and Kalamazoo, then it started to weaken. The worst damage was trees snapped in different directions, trees blown into garage doors,and carports ripped off. Cobb says if this tornado arrived during the day, spotters would have had a better chance of seeing it form. The last EF-1 to hit Grand Rapids was in 2001. The last tornado was a EF-0 in 2006, at a Caledonia golf course, Cobb said. ***End of post, emphasis on text is mine. Here's where I'm confused. There was an obvious couplet on radar, we saw this, so how does "National Weather Service meteorologists say they couldn't detect the twister because it was hidden and rain-wrapped" occur? Also, what does "Meteorologist Daniel Cobb says the tornado also developed behind the radar screen" mean exactly? (Sorry, this editor won't let me unbold stuff for some reason) *** 6 INJ *** NWS STORM SURVEY CONFIRMED AN EF-1 TORNADO TOUCHED DOWN IN BYRON CENTER BEFORE MOVING INTO WYOMING AND THEN KENTWOOD BEFORE LIFTING. THE TORNADO HAD MAXIM (GRR) Horrible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Some pretty cool mammatus clouds over Cincinnati this evening as most of the region was effected by some marginally severe thunderstorms. I knew I should have gone to the Reds game tonight ..... I figured it would get rained out but downtown's the one area that has escaped the rain! (also, did I really want to go see the Cubs?) https://twitter.com/MANdersonPR/status/486317115524145152/photo/1 That is an amazing picture! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitown Storm Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Looks like the line near the MN/IA border is hitting some better instability. It's holding it's own and turning a little more southerly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daddylonglegs Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Pounding here right now.... Some very close lightning strikes. downpour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geos Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Special Wx Statement for the LSE area. SPECIAL WEATHER STATEMENTNATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE LA CROSSE WI924 PM CDT MON JUL 7 2014WIZ041-053-080300-LA CROSSE-VERNON-924 PM CDT MON JUL 7 2014...A LINE OF STRONG THUNDERSTORMS WILL AFFECT LA CROSSE ANDNORTHWESTERN VERNON COUNTIES...AT 923 PM CDT...A LINE OF STRONG THUNDERSTORMS WAS ALONG A LINEEXTENDING FROM NEAR DAKOTA TO NEAR NEW ALBIN...AND MOVING EAST AT 35MPH.WINDS IN EXCESS OF 40 MPH ARE POSSIBLE WITH THESE STORMS. THESEWINDS COULD KNOCK DOWN TREE BRANCHES.LOCATIONS IMPACTED INCLUDE...LA CROSSE...ONALASKA...HOLMEN...FRENCH ISLAND...WESTSALEM...BANGOR...STODDARD...COON VALLEY...BRICEPRAIRIE...ROCKLAND...CHASEBURG AND GENOA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 For my area: AT 1025 PM EDT...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR INDICATED A SEVERE THUNDERSTORM CAPABLE OF PRODUCING DAMAGING WINDS IN EXCESS OF 60 MPH. THIS STORM WAS LOCATED NEAR BUFFALO...AND MOVING EAST AT 35 MPH. There hasn't been a post since May 22nd in the Upstate/New York sub-forum. (Aside from my own) They really should just delete that sub-forum completely. Even in winter it is 4-5 posters. I'm so lonely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackstraw Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 That cell SW of St. Louis over Cedar Hill Lakes hasn't moved for almost 2 hours, been warned for 90 minutes or so. Several reports of .25 to 2 inch hail over the same area since 8 CDT. That must be pretty wild under that thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 GRR has the Kentwood tornado touchdown time as 10:20 pm. I'd have to go back and check but I thought there was a couplet on it before then. Also, that line about the tornado forming upward is interesting. They haven't released more detailed survey info yet so I wonder if there were eyewitnesses to that. It was dark so it's not as easy to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclone77 Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Some pretty cool mammatus clouds over Cincinnati this evening as most of the region was effected by some marginally severe thunderstorms. I knew I should have gone to the Reds game tonight ..... I figured it would get rained out but downtown's the one area that has escaped the rain! (also, did I really want to go see the Cubs?) https://twitter.com/MANdersonPR/status/486317115524145152/photo/1 Wow that is an awesome pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogieman Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 GRR has the Kentwood tornado touchdown time as 10:20 pm. I'd have to go back and check but I thought there was a couplet on it before then. Also, that line about the tornado forming upward is interesting. They haven't released more detailed survey info yet so I wonder if there were eyewitnesses to that. It was dark so it's not as easy to see. Tornadotony's post (#69) was at 21 minutes past, board time, and figure it took a minute to get it posted. If it touched down in Byron Center, just west of US 131 (with 6 injuries), then the couplet should have been blatantly obvious by the time it crossed over US 131 on it's way to Wyoming and Kentwood. There should have been a warning. As for the "tornado forming upward" statement, I'm really not buying that. The rotation happens in the atmosphere, the ground isn't creating a tornado IMO. Sounds like someone grasping at straws to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornadotony Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Tornadotony's post (#69) was at 21 minutes past, board time, and figure it took a minute to get it posted. If it touched down in Byron Center, just west of US 131 (with 6 injuries), then the couplet should have been blatantly obvious by the time it crossed over US 131 on it's way to Wyoming and Kentwood. There should have been a warning. As for the "tornado forming upward" statement, I'm really not buying that. The rotation happens in the atmosphere, the ground isn't creating a tornado IMO. Sounds like someone grasping at straws to me. My post was well after the tornado was over. And as for the "tornado forming upward," that's called a non-descending tornado. There have been papers authored that show that they are actually rather common. What's more is that some recent research from OU brings into question whether or not there's actually any such thing as a descending tornado. Some of the most recent high-res observations suggest that, even if a TVS descends within a storm, there may be a point where a concentrated vortex forms near the surface and rises and that most, if not all, tornadoes are technically non-descending. This is why you'll never see me say that a tornado "touched down" anymore because it's unlikely that "touching down" ever actually happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-K Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 My post was well after the tornado was over. And as for the "tornado forming upward," that's called a non-descending tornado. There have been papers authored that show that they are actually rather common. What's more is that some recent research from OU brings into question whether or not there's actually any such thing as a descending tornado. Some of the most recent high-res observations suggest that, even if a TVS descends within a storm, there may be a point where a concentrated vortex forms near the surface and rises and that most, if not all, tornadoes are technically non-descending. This is why you'll never see me say that a tornado "touched down" anymore because it's unlikely that "touching down" ever actually happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlogin Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 SEVERE WEATHER STATEMENT NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE WILMINGTON OH 1105 AM EDT TUE JUL 8 2014 OHC011-149-081530- /O.CON.KILN.TO.W.0026.000000T0000Z-140708T1530Z/ AUGLAIZE OH-SHELBY OH- 1105 AM EDT TUE JUL 8 2014 ...A TORNADO WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 1130 AM EDT FOR NORTHERN SHELBY AND CENTRAL AUGLAIZE COUNTIES... AT 1102 AM EDT...RADAR INDICATED A SEVERE THUNDERSTORM CAPABLE OF PRODUCING A TORNADO LOCATED 2 MILES EAST OF LAKE LORAMIE STATE PARK...MOVING EAST AT 45 MPH. LOCATIONS IMPACTED INCLUDE... MCCARTYVILLE...ANNA...BOTKINS...SWANDERS... PORT JEFFERSON...MONTRA AND JACKSON CENTER. THIS INCLUDES THE FOLLOWING INTERSTATE... I-75 BETWEEN MILE MARKERS 95 AND 105... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonOH Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 This one has me pretty confused. Not very much tight rotation at all. Edit: Warning Cancelled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 My post was well after the tornado was over. And as for the "tornado forming upward," that's called a non-descending tornado. There have been papers authored that show that they are actually rather common. What's more is that some recent research from OU brings into question whether or not there's actually any such thing as a descending tornado. Some of the most recent high-res observations suggest that, even if a TVS descends within a storm, there may be a point where a concentrated vortex forms near the surface and rises and that most, if not all, tornadoes are technically non-descending. This is why you'll never see me say that a tornado "touched down" anymore because it's unlikely that "touching down" ever actually happens. Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing. I didn't know that they were so common. I believe the 1999 Salt Lake City tornado is one example of a non-descending tornado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 There may have been a tornado touchdown northeast of Valley City with the warning near Cleveland and the tornado may still be on the ground northeast of Brunswick SEVERE WEATHER STATEMENTNATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE CLEVELAND OH147 PM EDT TUE JUL 8 2014OHC035-103-081800-/O.CON.KCLE.TO.W.0023.000000T0000Z-140708T1800Z/CUYAHOGA OH-MEDINA OH-147 PM EDT TUE JUL 8 2014...A TORNADO WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT UNTIL 200 PM EDT FORNORTHEASTERN MEDINA AND SOUTHEASTERN CUYAHOGA COUNTIES...AT 141 PM EDT...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR CONTINUED TOINDICATE A POSSIBLE TORNADO...LOCATED NEAR NORTH ROYALTON...OR NEARHINKLEY...MOVING EAST AT 50 MPH.* LOCATIONS IMPACTED INCLUDE...SOLON...NORTH ROYALTON AND BRUNSWICK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornadotony Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 There definitely was a tornado in Medina County. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Yeah it looks like that was a tornado on radar which corresponds to this report 0134 PM TSTM WND DMG VALLEY CITY 41.24N 81.93W07/08/2014 MEDINA OH LAW ENFORCEMENTTREES DOWN. ROOF DAMAGE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 There definitely was a tornado in Medina County. CLE_big_debris_ball.png Yeah great catch, that is right in the same area as the storm report too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 There definitely was a tornado in Medina County. CLE_big_debris_ball.png Wow dual pol is so awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 First MOD risk in quite awhile for my region Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE CLEVELAND OH 403 PM EDT TUE JUL 8 2014 ..EF1 TORNADO CONFIRMED IN MEDINA COUNTY OHIO THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE HAS CONFIRMED AN EF1 TORNADO IN MEDINA COUNTY OHIO. LOCATION...MEDINA COUNTY (HINCKLEY) DATE...JULY 8 2014 ESTIMATED TIME...1:47 PM EDT MAXIMUM EF-SCALE RATING....EF1 ESTIMATED WIND SPEED...94 MPH MAX PATH WIDTH...150 YARDS PATH LENGTH...0.6 MILES BEGINNING LAT/LON 41.274/-81.746 ENDING LAT/LON 41.277/-81.734 SUMMARY... A TORNADO TOUCHED DOWN JUST SOUTH OF THE INTERSECTION OF RIDGE ROAD AND BOSTON ROAD IN HINCKLEY. A HOME ON RIDGE ROAD HAD MINOR ROOF DAMAGE. THE TORNADO TRACKED 0.6 MILES MOVING ACROSS THE WATER TREATMENT PLANT AND LIFTING AT THE EASTERN EDGE OF THE VALLEAIRE GOLF COURSE OFF OF BOSTON ROAD. TREE DAMAGE OCCURRED AT THE GOLF COURSE. WINDS WERE ESTIMATED AT 94 MPH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE CLEVELAND OH 403 PM EDT TUE JUL 8 2014 ..EF1 TORNADO CONFIRMED IN MEDINA COUNTY OHIO THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE HAS CONFIRMED AN EF1 TORNADO IN MEDINA COUNTY OHIO. LOCATION...MEDINA COUNTY (HINCKLEY) DATE...JULY 8 2014 ESTIMATED TIME...1:47 PM EDT MAXIMUM EF-SCALE RATING....EF1 ESTIMATED WIND SPEED...94 MPH MAX PATH WIDTH...150 YARDS PATH LENGTH...0.6 MILES BEGINNING LAT/LON 41.274/-81.746 ENDING LAT/LON 41.277/-81.734 SUMMARY... A TORNADO TOUCHED DOWN JUST SOUTH OF THE INTERSECTION OF RIDGE ROAD AND BOSTON ROAD IN HINCKLEY. A HOME ON RIDGE ROAD HAD MINOR ROOF DAMAGE. THE TORNADO TRACKED 0.6 MILES MOVING ACROSS THE WATER TREATMENT PLANT AND LIFTING AT THE EASTERN EDGE OF THE VALLEAIRE GOLF COURSE OFF OF BOSTON ROAD. TREE DAMAGE OCCURRED AT THE GOLF COURSE. WINDS WERE ESTIMATED AT 94 MPH. Damn that was fast... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogieman Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 My post was well after the tornado was over. And as for the "tornado forming upward," that's called a non-descending tornado. There have been papers authored that show that they are actually rather common. What's more is that some recent research from OU brings into question whether or not there's actually any such thing as a descending tornado. Some of the most recent high-res observations suggest that, even if a TVS descends within a storm, there may be a point where a concentrated vortex forms near the surface and rises and that most, if not all, tornadoes are technically non-descending. This is why you'll never see me say that a tornado "touched down" anymore because it's unlikely that "touching down" ever actually happens. Thank you for clarifying those points, tt. It's just hard for me to get my head around the idea that the rotation originates at the surface instead of aloft. It's always been drilled into me that the rotation forms aloft and works it's way to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogieman Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 LOL love that graphic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewxmann Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Traer, IA tornado rated EF1... but substantial ground scouring noted (and evident in the photo), so this could've been much stronger had it hit structures: http://www.crh.noaa.gov/images/dmx/StormSurveys/2014/07-06_CIATors/140706StormSurveyV1.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 http://www.startribu.../266362981.html 4 deaths in Tornado south of Syracuse earlier this afternoon. Everyones attention was on a tornado warning just north of Syracuse and completely neglected the storm to the south that caused the most damage...=( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyhb Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 http://www.startribu.../266362981.html 4 deaths in Tornado south of Syracuse earlier this afternoon. Everyones attention was on a tornado warning just north of Syracuse and completely neglected the storm to the south that caused the most damage...=( Um, the supercell did pass on the southern side of Syracuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWeather Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Um, the supercell did pass on the southern side of Syracuse. Yeah my bad. Do you have any other radar imagery of this storm? Seems like a local met is saying that the NWS did indeed issue a warning for this storm, yet there is currently no evidence of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BINGHAMTON, NY 255 PM EDT WED JUL 9 2014 ...A NWS STORM SURVEY TEAM HAS SURVEYED DAMAGE FROM A CONFIRMED TORNADO NEAR SMITHFIELD NEW YORK... A NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE STORM SURVEY TEAM HAS CONFIRMED THAT A TORNADO OCCURRED NEAR SMITHFIELD IN MADISON COUNTY NEW YORK. THE TORNADO TOUCHED DOWN A 7:02 PM ON TUESDAY JULY 8TH. THE PATH WIDTH WAS 235 YARDS AND THE LENGTH WAS 2.5 MILES. THE MAXIMUM WIND SPEEDS WITH THE TORNADO WERE 100 TO 125 MPH RESULTING IN AN INTENSITY DESIGNATION OF EF2. THREE HOMES WERE DESTROYED AND FIVE OTHERS SUSTAINED SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE. THE STORM FIRST STRUCK A MANUFACTURED HOME WITH SOME ADDITIONAL CONSTRUCTION ON GOFF ROAD PRODUCING TWO FATALITIES. A BARN AND HOME WERE THEN DESTROYED NEXT TO THIS FIRST HOME ON GOFF ROAD. A TRAILER WAS DESTROYED NEXT TO THE BARN WITH ANOTHER FATALITY. ANOTHER HOME THEN SUSTAINED SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE FROM FLYING MISSILES. ALL OF THIS DESTRUCTION WAS ON GOFF ROAD. ON NORTHRUP ROAD A THREE STORY HOME WAS REMOVED FROM ITS FOUNDATION AND THROWN DOWN A HILL KILLING THE OCCUPANT. PORTIONS OF THIS HOUSE WERE THROWN INTO ANOTHER HOUSE. DAMAGE ON NORTHRUP AND GOFF ROADS WAS CLEARLY TORNADIC WITH LOTS OF THROWN DEBRIS AND DOWNED TREES. THE TORNADO WEAKENED AND PRODUCED EF1 DAMAGE TO A HOME ON BUTLER ROAD THEN WEAKENED TO EF1 AND ENDED ON ROUTE 31. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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