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April 2014 discussion


Mikehobbyst

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I'm not seeing anything like that anyway. The GFS and Euro are not all that wet...maybe an inch spread over 4 days...still 5+ days out anyway

The 12z Euro has rain from hours ~156 right through to ~228. Yes, it won't rain constantly, but at hour 240 the cut off low is still parked over the great lakes.

 

Every model is showing the same thing now, and the 00z ECMWF ensembles were even wetter than the OP last night.

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Just like during the winter season, people get spoiled.

 

I know a lot of people complain that we never get a true Spring, well this year will break the cycle.

We've seen pretty fantastic Springs the last few years despite all the complaining that they've sucked. They've been mostly above normal with near or below normal precip. We're actually due for a cooler, wetter Spring. 

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We've seen pretty fantastic Springs the last few years despite all the complaining that they've sucked. They've been mostly above normal with near or below normal precip. We're actually due for a cooler, wetter Spring. 

What I mean is that cooler and ranier is more typical historically than warm and dry from April through the end of May.

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Guest Pamela

Southern NJ is better for storms, flat terrain and sometimes the outflow boundaries interact favorably with the sea breeze fronts.

 

Truth be told, the best part of NJ for thunderstorms are the higher elevations of Passaic & Morris Counties due to orographic enhancement.  These counties are also, not coincidentally, the wettest parts of the state.  Sussex & Warren counties are also pretty good for t-storms...though a bit drier overall from an overall annual precipitation standpoint because they sometimes miss offshore coastal storms.

The driest part of the state is in the southwest...south of Philadelphia...where flat terrain and distance from the ocean combine to keep it (relatively) dry.  Hence the frequent summer time fire hazard in the Pine Barrens...though some are, of course, ignited by lightning strikes. 

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Truth be told, the best part of NJ for thunderstorms are the higher elevations of Passaic & Morris Counties due to orographic enhancement. These counties are also, not coincidentally, the wettest parts of the state. Sussex & Warren counties are also pretty good for t-storms...though a bit drier overall from an overall annual precipitation standpoint because they sometimes miss offshore coastal storms.

The driest part of the state is in the southwest...south of Philadelphia...where flat terrain and distance from the ocean combine to keep it (relatively) dry. Hence the frequent summer time fire hazard in the Pine Barrens...though some are, of course, ignited by lightning strikes.

I spend a lot of time in Atlantic County during the summer and we get plenty of storms and plenty of severe storms. I live in Morris County and even though we get more precipitation up here, the storms have been weaker. I was down there a few summers ago for the mid Atlantic derecho and it was one of the few times I've ever been legit scared by the weather.
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Guest Pamela

I spend a lot of time in Atlantic County during the summer and we get plenty of storms and plenty of severe storms. I live in Morris County and even though we get more precipitation up here, the storms have been weaker. I was down there a few summers ago for the mid Atlantic derecho and it was one of the few times I've ever been legit scared by the weather.

 

Well, I'm certainly not saying you didn't observe these things; my comments were based on long term climate averages from the various NWS cooperatives state wide. 

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Well, I'm certainly not saying you didn't observe these things; my comments were based on long term climate averages from the various NWS cooperatives state wide.

A lot of times the storm motion is out of the south or southwest down there and storms tend to fire along sea breeze fronts. South Jersey also sees a fair number of squall lines that miss NYC to the south but nail Philly.
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40N is the dividing line often times w/ coastal storms. To William's point, the lower 1/3 of NJ is much drier, and so is NW Sussex County. Interestingly enough, even though Sussex has the highest point, it tends to miss out on some of the coastal events. Orographic lift across Morris and Passaic produce substantially more precip.

 

ix8c5s.gif

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Guest Pamela

40N is the dividing line often times w/ coastal storms. To William's point, the lower 1/3 of NJ is much drier, and so is NW Sussex County. Interestingly enough, even though Sussex has the highest point, it tends to miss out on some of the coastal events. Orographic lift across Morris and Passaic produce substantially more precip.

 

ix8c5s.gif

 

Thank you for visually corroborating my point Tom...thank you very much.

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The driest part of the state is in the southwest...south of Philadelphia...where flat terrain and distance from the ocean combine to keep it (relatively) dry.  Hence the frequent summer time fire hazard in the Pine Barrens...though some are, of course, ignited by lightning strikes. 

 

You know, I've yet to see a pine barrens fire which was natural.  All the ones I remember were anthropogenic.  As I recall, it was actually human influence which helps make the pines what they are today; without frequent human-caused fire, oaks would become dominant in most of the area, as they have in some sections already.  This makes sense since prime fire season isn't summer thunderstorm season, but now, when cool dry winds can whip flames rapidly through last season's organic debris.  The core of the barrens is actually from northern Atlantic north-northeast across southeastern Burlington and into western Ocean. Southwestern NJ, Salem County in particular, is actually a rather productive farm area. 

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Guest Pamela

You know, I've yet to see a pine barrens fire which was natural.  All the ones I remember were anthropogenic. 

 

Would agree...most are accidental...a few are deliberately set by the sick-minded...and a very small percentage are caused by lightning strikes. 

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Not new, have had them forever.  Not sure about how common they are used in Eastern Region, but out here we use them all the time.

Upton has been using them for the past few years in the spring when the conditions are there.

 

URGENT - FIRE WEATHER MESSAGE

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY

338 AM EDT THU APR 24 2014

...RED FLAG CONDITIONS EXPECTED TODAY INTO THIS EVENING...

NJZ002-004-006-103>108-NYZ067>075-078>081-176>179-250000-

/O.CON.KOKX.FW.W.0001.140424T1300Z-140425T0000Z/

WESTERN PASSAIC-EASTERN PASSAIC-HUDSON-WESTERN BERGEN-

EASTERN BERGEN-WESTERN ESSEX-EASTERN ESSEX-WESTERN UNION-

EASTERN UNION-ORANGE-PUTNAM-ROCKLAND-NORTHERN WESTCHESTER-

SOUTHERN WESTCHESTER-NEW YORK (MANHATTAN)-BRONX-

RICHMOND (STATEN ISLAND)-KINGS (BROOKLYN)-NORTHWESTERN SUFFOLK-

NORTHEASTERN SUFFOLK-SOUTHWESTERN SUFFOLK-SOUTHEASTERN SUFFOLK-

NORTHERN QUEENS-NORTHERN NASSAU-SOUTHERN QUEENS-SOUTHERN NASSAU-

338 AM EDT THU APR 24 2014

...RED FLAG WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM 9 AM THIS MORNING TO

8 PM EDT THIS EVENING FOR NORTHEAST NEW JERSEY AND SOUTHEAST NEW

YORK...

* AFFECTED AREA...NORTHEAST NEW JERSEY AND SOUTHEAST NEW YORK.

* WINDS...NORTHWEST 15 TO 25 MPH WITH GUSTS UP TO 40 MPH.

* RELATIVE HUMIDITY...AS LOW AS 11 PERCENT.

* TIMING...LATE THIS MORNING THROUGH THIS EVENING.

* IMPACTS...RAPID FIRE SPREAD POSSIBLE IF IGNITION OCCURS.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

A RED FLAG WARNING MEANS THAT CRITICAL FIRE WEATHER CONDITIONS

ARE EXPECTED OR OCCURRING. A COMBINATION OF STRONG WINDS...LOW

RELATIVE HUMIDITY...AND DRY FUELS WILL CREATE CRITICAL FIRE

WEATHER CONDITIONS.

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Upton has been using them for the past few years in the spring when the conditions are there.

URGENT - FIRE WEATHER MESSAGE

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY

338 AM EDT THU APR 24 2014

...RED FLAG CONDITIONS EXPECTED TODAY INTO THIS EVENING...

NJZ002-004-006-103>108-NYZ067>075-078>081-176>179-250000-

/O.CON.KOKX.FW.W.0001.140424T1300Z-140425T0000Z/

WESTERN PASSAIC-EASTERN PASSAIC-HUDSON-WESTERN BERGEN-

EASTERN BERGEN-WESTERN ESSEX-EASTERN ESSEX-WESTERN UNION-

EASTERN UNION-ORANGE-PUTNAM-ROCKLAND-NORTHERN WESTCHESTER-

SOUTHERN WESTCHESTER-NEW YORK (MANHATTAN)-BRONX-

RICHMOND (STATEN ISLAND)-KINGS (BROOKLYN)-NORTHWESTERN SUFFOLK-

NORTHEASTERN SUFFOLK-SOUTHWESTERN SUFFOLK-SOUTHEASTERN SUFFOLK-

NORTHERN QUEENS-NORTHERN NASSAU-SOUTHERN QUEENS-SOUTHERN NASSAU-

338 AM EDT THU APR 24 2014

...RED FLAG WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT FROM 9 AM THIS MORNING TO

8 PM EDT THIS EVENING FOR NORTHEAST NEW JERSEY AND SOUTHEAST NEW

YORK...

* AFFECTED AREA...NORTHEAST NEW JERSEY AND SOUTHEAST NEW YORK.

* WINDS...NORTHWEST 15 TO 25 MPH WITH GUSTS UP TO 40 MPH.

* RELATIVE HUMIDITY...AS LOW AS 11 PERCENT.

* TIMING...LATE THIS MORNING THROUGH THIS EVENING.

* IMPACTS...RAPID FIRE SPREAD POSSIBLE IF IGNITION OCCURS.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

A RED FLAG WARNING MEANS THAT CRITICAL FIRE WEATHER CONDITIONS

ARE EXPECTED OR OCCURRING. A COMBINATION OF STRONG WINDS...LOW

RELATIVE HUMIDITY...AND DRY FUELS WILL CREATE CRITICAL FIRE

WEATHER CONDITIONS.

Red flag warnings yes..what I was saying is I don't recall them using fire weather watches/warnings or are they the same thing?

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