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3/17-3/18 Storm Threat Discussion


Zelocita Weather

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Is there any chance at all that the NAM, which still gives us close to a foot of snow, could be correct? I know the chance is very slim, but you should never completely discount anything in weather. There has to be at least a 5% chance that the NAM could be right.

 

Sure, leaving a 95% chance it's wrong. That does sound just about right.

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Is there any chance at all that the NAM, which still gives us close to a foot of snow, could be correct? I know the chance is very slim, but you should never completely discount anything in weather. There has to be at least a 5% chance that the NAM could be right.

:weenie:

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Wow the curse of march strikes again. I will say I think we still see a couple inches unlike the last fail. And the Wednesday storm did end up further north with the southern Vermont mountains receiving a crushing blow of an ice storm. You want to talk about disappointment they would have taken rain any day

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March 1980.  Look it up...very similar. Several lower mid atlantic storms.  I believe Norfolk VA had its greatest snowfall ever during this pattern back then.

 

The ensembles were all over the March 80 analog back in mid-February but this month

is turning colder and more suppressed with the snows to date. We already had 4.6"

by this time in 1980 and the temperature departure is lower this month.

 

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Whatever data went into 12z, clearly affected the entire suite.

GFS, GGEM, UKMET + now the NAVGEM are all the same.

So what's the issue, I assume it's the phasing. Only that could have such a dramatic effect on an entire suite of runs because there's no huge changes with the PV and its placement. 

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I guess I would wait until 0z before totally throwing out any chance but I'd say the writing's definitely on the wall. The models all moving in unison means that it likely comes from sampling and that the data, not biases show another crush-job. Incredible that this can happen twice within two weeks in MARCH. Just horrible timing and luck.

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So what's the issue, I assume it's the phasing. Only that could have such a dramatic effect on an entire suite of runs because there's no huge changes with the PV and its placement. 

 

Its all phasing, the system basically shears out, the PV does not really have anything to do with this.

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So what's the issue, I assume it's the phasing. Only that could have such a dramatic effect on an entire suite of runs because there's no huge changes with the PV and its placement. 

 

Dont know, but the 12z GEFS mean just also made a dramatic shift south. So it affected them also.

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Put it this way, this one is alot more likely to come north than that last one...this is not so much PV problems as it is sloppy phasing, if this thing ends up more organized its coming north.

The PV is also trending south and stronger. The phasing looks sloppier and the sheared energy is a definite cause, but the PV certainly isn't helping.

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Dont know, but the 12z GEFS mean just also made a dramatic shift south. So it affected them also.

Either the data indicated the energy would hold back and they all faltered on the phasing because of it. This event is really all or nothing, either the energy ejects east and we see a phase or it hangs back and we see nothing. If that's the case then more dramatic shifts are possible. 

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I guess I would wait until 0z before totally throwing out any chance but I'd say the writing's definitely on the wall. The models all moving in unison means that it likely comes from sampling and that the data, not biases show another crush-job. Incredible that this can happen twice within two weeks in MARCH. Just horrible timing and luck.

Well to be fair it happened with our Jan/Feb storms too. Last minute north trends that kept trending. Probably nothing this drastic in terms of run to run but we did go from practically nothing to 8-12" in 3 days with the early Feb storm. Unfortunately its doing the reverse this time.

 

What is confusing is that the models sampled the energy so badly to show such an extreme solution and then do a complete 180 as soon as that energy came onshore.

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