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March 2-4 Snowstorm Potential Part 2


REDMK6GLI

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I thought I read somewhere thay there was plenty of sampling offshore from the buoys?

There is pretty good sensing but look at the charts that doorman posted. The southern stream looks more energetic than modeled currently, the 12Z run is going to determine whether this does put NYC back in the game for major snows or the 6z run was just an amped up blip

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The North trend is great to see for many here, but the Euro remains the biggest wildcard/headscratcher for me. Thinking that 12z is so big given sampling, etc. that the NAM/RGEM/GFS are privy to ATM.

Tracking is such a huge part of the fun/misery!

Cant think of a better time to say "12z suite is going hold weenie dreams in its hands"

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Agree fully.

We said last nite the ncep models were sometimes poor in the mid range with splut flow southern branch features.

KNYC gets to .75. Monmouth county to 1 inch. Still looking at bout 12 to 1 ish IMO

The GFS was a hug tick N. at 0Z that 1 inch line was at AC. Now its just S of the Driscoll

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We said last nite the ncep models were sometimes poor in the mid range with splut flow southern branch features.

KNYC gets to .75. Monmouth county to 1 inch. Still looking at bout 12 to 1 ish IMO

The GFS was a hug tick N. at 0Z that 1 inch line was at AC. Now its just S of the Driscoll

 

Yeah, it looks like the inversion at 750-850 mb will keep ratios around that range.

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We said last nite the ncep models were sometimes poor in the mid range with splut flow southern branch features.

KNYC gets to .75. Monmouth county to 1 inch. Still looking at bout 12 to 1 ish IMO

The GFS was a hug tick N. at 0Z that 1 inch line was at AC. Now its just S of the Driscoll

Gut feeling is this is going trend north today. With fresh sampling today for the 6z suite and 0z to a point it looks promising, to what degree north yet to be seen but 12z is going to be a nut house in here paul. Either way .9-1" in this area with 12:1 ratios would still be 10-12" of snow roughly

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it is no great mystery WHY the NAM and the GFS are coming north - more accurate data being fed into the equations because the storm is in range of the west coast sampling - still VERY complex situation now with a few players having to move together down the field at the right speed and direction - somehow 6 - 10 inches seems just about the right totals IMO to be forecasting in the NYC Metro - and then adjust today and tomorrow from there - what does everyone else think ?

 

 

Agree fully.

Add another agree fully.  In case anyone is curious, here's what I just said in my email update (I'm not a met, but I have a large email list of coworkers/friends/family I send winter weather updates to, to try to interpret/explain the weather to): 

 

So glad I didn't send out an update last night wailing about the big southward shift in the models, which were indicating less snow north of 195/276 in NJ/PA (down to 4-6" or so and even less north of 78).  As usual, the NWS is the voice of reason.  They did not completely jump on the south trend and have issued Winter Storm Watches for 6-10" snow, south of I-80 (and even down to Balt/DC/DE).  And they have been rewarded by the models, as they have shifted back north this morning - crazy stuff. 

 

So, we're mostly back to where we were yesterday, with a general 6-10" snowfalll forecast for all of Central/South Jersey, SE PA/Philly, NYC, LI, and most of North Jersey/eastern PA, south of I-80.  Snow should begin in earnest late Sunday evening and continue through early Monday afternoon and given temps in the mid/upper 20s, the Monday morning commute is likely to be very difficult with moderate to heavy snow accumulating on all paved, untreated surfaces (and even treated ones when the snow is falling heavily enough).  North of I-80 snowfall drops off to 3-6" in PA/NJ/NY (and 1-3" north of I-84), as there would be less precip - that's definitely a bit less than yesterday. 

 

However, we're still 36-42 hours from the start of the event and given the chaotic, highly unpredictable nature of the weather, there still could be modest changes in the forecast, especially since the storm just came ashore in California this morning (meaning the initial conditions for the models are now be richer, leading to more accurate modeling).  Having said that, though we're getting closer to the event, meaning the "error bars" are narrowing (kind of like the "cone of uncertainty" they show for hurricane tracks, which gets smaller as one gets closer in time), such that the window for large shifts is closing. Let's (ok, maybe "I") hope the general 6-10" prediction verifies. As an aside the "big" snows of 12" or more are unlikely, as the storm just doesn't look powerful enough (or be moving slowly enough) to generate that much snow.  I'll take it. 

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Gut feeling is this is going trend north today. With fresh sampling today for the 6z suite and 0z to a point it looks promising, to what degree north yet to be seen but 12z is going to be a nut house in here paul. Either way .9-1" in this area with 12:1 ratios would still be 10-12" of snow roughly

Early march. Take it and run

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I thought I read somewhere thay there was plenty of sampling offshore from the buoys?

 

Not commenting on what you read, but there are only about half a dozen offshore buoys currently producing data in the Pacific between the US-Mex border and the US-Can border. There are another dozen or so offshore heading up towards the Gulf of Alaska. All the rest are within the littoral zone, roughly 0 - 100 km. The offshore realm isn't a particularly dense array of data sources, by any means.

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I presume the 09Z? You're getting the run much faster than I can (here and on Stormvista).

It's out on the NCEP site. This is the one NCEP product that does make it out as fast or faster than paid sites

 

http://mag.ncep.noaa.gov/NCOMAGWEB/appcontroller/model-guidance-model-parameter.php?group=Model%20Guidance&model=SREF&area=NAMER&ps=area

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Doorman

Love the real time observations! Nice to see you confident

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SREF continues to be VERY encouraging for most of us here. There is one caveat here, and that is the SREF by it's ensemble nature tends to "paint with a broad brush", if you will; meaning the precip shield particularly on the north side is likely way overdone. However, seeing that the axis of heaviest precip moves through Philly up into NYC, places most of us in a VERY good position at this juncture. I still think caution is warranted north of 41N for a big hit (greater than 6" snowfall).

 

All things considered I went to bed last night after 0z GFS expecting the south trend to be over, and I must say I'm very pleased where we are at this point. I agree with the NWS WSW forecasts at this point as well. I think with time the WSW will be expanded to include NE NJ and coastal Conn. and coastal RI.

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