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2/26/2014 Potential Snowstorm


NEG NAO

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Upton
 

 

SNOW DEVELOPS LATE TUESDAY NIGHT...AND "WILL "CONTINUE WITH LIKELY POPS ACROSS THE REGION FOR THE DAY WEDNESDAY. WITH THE LOW SO FAR SOUTH...THE BULK OF THE SNOW WILL FALL ACROSS NYC AND LONG ISLAND....BUT NOT EXPECTING MORE THAN A 1-3" SNOWFALL ACROSS SOUTHERN
PORTIONS OF THE CWA AND LESS THAN THAT ACROSS THE INTERIOR.""""

 

 

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I don't know—it seems like the last two or three systems have underperformed in general. There are surprises every winter, but at 48 hours out with no support from guidance, it's hard to bank on seasonal trends...

The storm is too progressive, there's a kicker behind it, and the NAO is uncooperative, with nothing to force a left turn. To me it seems pretty straightforward that this is a flat, OTS system. The seasonal trend may be one thing, but if there is no mechanism to cause a stronger system, it just won't happen.

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I don't know—it seems like the last two or three systems have underperformed in general. There are surprises every winter, but at 48 hours out with no support from guidance, it's hard to bank on seasonal trends...

A few storms trend more favorably at the eleventh hour and some people think it's going to happen with every storm. The GFS really only had one really big run and the Euro held onto this threat a little longer. The GGEM wanted basically no part of it from the very beginning.

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Yeah this threat is dead. Trends are continuing in the wrong direction. A few storms have trended better late this year, but that is simply no reason to forecast this one will as well. It isn't even trending in the right direction, so to think a sudden turnaround is happening 1.5 days out is just unrealistic. Even the storms that came northwest late were already doing so, and weren't trending away from a big solution.

The euro held onto this for so long because it doesn't make really big leaps. It had been trending worse for several runs now, albeit gradually, but still getting worse.

It does kind of seem in a way that we are always 7 days away from a big storm. Hopefully that doesn't continue. We've already punted a week that looked pretty favorable, we can't really afford to be 7 days away from a threat for much longer in the season.

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The storm is too progressive, there's a kicker behind it, and the NAO is uncooperative, with nothing to force a left turn. To me it seems pretty straightforward that this is a flat, OTS system. The seasonal trend may be one thing, but if there is no mechanism to cause a stronger system, it just won't happen.

 

Too add, the shortwave energy is strung out. And a prior shortwave, is also suppressing the heights near the coast. But I would wait  for other guidance to come in, before believing complete dry solution like the NAM shows.

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Yeah this threat is dead. Trends are continuing in the wrong direction. A few storms have trended better late this year, but that is simply no reason to forecast this one will as well. It isn't even trending in the right direction, so to think a sudden turnaround is happening 1.5 days out is just unrealistic. Even the storms that came northwest late were already doing so, and weren't trending away from a big solution.

The euro held onto this for so long because it doesn't make really big leaps. It had been trending worse for several runs now, albeit gradually, but still getting worse.

It does kind of seem in a way that we are always 7 days away from a big storm. Hopefully that doesn't continue. We've already punted a week that looked pretty favorable, we can't really afford to be 7 days away from a threat for much longer in the season.

If you spend enough time watching the models over the years you'll see that this phenomena of always being seven days away is really nothing new. The modeling post day 7 will often handle certain features very differently from one day to the next and so much of that is a domino effect as the short range is better sampled and adjustments are made and so on and so forth. This is especially true of the GFS post truncation. The lower resolution leads to a more smoothed out depiction of the features and the result can be some rather wild synoptic depictions. We've seen this year especially a few storms on the GFS which appeared to be blockbuster type events weaken as time grew closer. In reality I believe that is just a result of the higher resolution leading to less smoothed out QPF fields as events move up in time.
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If you spend enough time watching the models over the years you'll see that this phenomena of always being seven days away is really nothing new. The modeling post day 7 will often handle certain features very differently from one day to the next and so much of that is a domino effect as the short range is better sampled and adjustments are made and so on and so forth. This is especially true of the GFS post truncation. The lower resolution leads to a more smoothed out depiction of the features and the result can be some rather wild synoptic depictions. We've seen this year especially a few storms on the GFS which appeared to be blockbuster type events weaken as time grew closer. In reality I believe that is just a result of the higher resolution leading to less smoothed out QPF fields as events move up in time.

Yeah your definitely right about that. The gfs has had some historic looking solutions at points only to come back down to reality with a much weaker system.

This is my first year on the forums and really following the weather closely and being involved with the models. It does seem model performance has been sub par this winter season.

Maybe 2-3 weeks ago we had a storm threat at about 6-7 days on all models with significant ensemble support on the gfs and euro and it just kind of vanished slowly over a few runs.

We will see what happens, but it would be a comical reversal if the time where we start worrying about rain snow lines produced supression

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Yeah your definitely right about that. The gfs has had some historic looking solutions at points only to come back down to reality with a much weaker system.

This is my first year on the forums and really following the weather closely and being involved with the models. It does seem model performance has been sub par this winter season.

Maybe 2-3 weeks ago we had a storm threat at about 6-7 days on all models with significant ensemble support on the gfs and euro and it just kind of vanished slowly over a few runs.

We will see what happens, but it would be a comical reversal if the time where we start worrying about rain snow lines produced supression

Welcome to the world of weather weenies! We're a rather unique group of people.

 

The progressive flow has really taken its toll on the modeling this year. It's what has prevented a few of these systems from really wrapping up and becoming blockbuster type events. Then again without such an active jet we wouldn't of had as many storm threats to follow, so it's a bit of a catch 22.

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Yeah your definitely right about that. The gfs has had some historic looking solutions at points only to come back down to reality with a much weaker system.

This is my first year on the forums and really following the weather closely and being involved with the models. It does seem model performance has been sub par this winter season.

Maybe 2-3 weeks ago we had a storm threat at about 6-7 days on all models with significant ensemble support on the gfs and euro and it just kind of vanished slowly over a few runs.

We will see what happens, but it would be a comical reversal if the time where we start worrying about rain snow lines produced supression

Yeah, we've a couple cases like that so far. 06z GFS on Feb 4...

 

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Welcome to the world of weather weenies! We're a rather unique group of people.

The progressive flow has really taken its toll on the modeling this year. It's what has prevented a few of these systems from really wrapping up and becoming blockbuster type events. Then again without such an active jet we wouldn't of had as many storm threats to follow, so it's a bit of a catch 22.

The progressive nature this year no doubt has played havoc on the models in long, medium and even short range. One of the worst winters to be a forecaster IMO

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