Rib Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 First of all, the obvious snow. Not one or in 09-10's case, 3 storms, we have had lots of storms. On top of that, the ice storm that from a power outage perspective, was the worst winter storm of all time. 600,000-700,000 people lost power, not in a region, not in a state, but in 3 counties! People in highly populated areas had to wait days for power to be restored. This winter has brought the cold as well. Warmups have been brief and in general, this has been a cold winter. No other winter brought what this winter has brought and still may bring. 95-96 had the blizzard that crippled the area for a couple of days but didn't have the same effect. I seriously can't find a winter that had this combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Wiggum Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 First of all, the obvious snow. Not one or in 09-10's case, 3 storms, we have had lots of storms. On top of that, the ice storm that from a power outage perspective, was the worst winter storm of all time. 600,000-700,000 people lost power, not in a region, not in a state, but in 3 counties! People in highly populated areas had to wait days for power to be restored. This winter has brought the cold as well. Warmups have been brief and in general, this has been a cold winter. No other winter brought what this winter has brought and still may bring. 95-96 had the blizzard that crippled the area for a couple of days but didn't have the same effect. I seriously can't find a winter that had this combination.93-94 was pretty bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEchestercountydude Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 So in saying worst, you mean best for us winter loving weenies. I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rib Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 93-94 was pretty bad 93-94 brought the ice but the snow was limited to north of here. The Jan 94 ice storm power outage record stood 20 years outside of Sandy which was not a winter storm. 93-94 brought the cold and the ice. 2 of the 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCT777 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Yes, 93-94 was bad due to the multiple ice / wintry combo events. This winter has been very similar in nature, IMO. A lot of winter storms - some including sleet and freezing rain - and multiple shots of very cold air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rib Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 This winter is similar in the fact that most of the storms were waves of low pressure along fronts except for the last one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ_Ken Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 93-94 was pretty bad I agree. 1993/94 was very similar to this year in that both had bone-chilling cold AND numerous winter weather events. Unfortunately, for the "worst" winter comparison, many more of the 93/94 events were ice at PHL, which brings the seasonal snowfall total way down in comparision to this year. Still, as far as the number of days with miserable driving conditions, frigid cold temps, and no power, 1993/94 was right there with this year in my book. Heck, if four days had been different in 1994, these two seasons, even on paper, would be almost a dead heat. Between February 8 and 11, 1994, two storms hit PHL with a total liquid equivalent of 1.78" and the precipitation fell with temps mostly in the teens to low 20s.... unfortunately, almost all of that precip managed to fall as sleet so officially PHL only got 10" of "snow". If those storms had instead been all snow and if ratios had been decent, PHL could easily have gotten 24" snow there (I believe EWR, for example, had a total of 30" over those four days and ABE had almost 20"!). That, in turn, would have made the 93-94 seasonal snow totals a lot closer to this year and made this a far easier comparison to make. The other "big daddy" snowfall seasons of the recent past, just don't measure up (no pun intended) to this year and 93-94 for various reasons. 95-96 had plenty of cold weather and obviously plenty of snow, but it never got frigid cold like this year and fully half of the snow was from a single storm. 02-03 was similar with not a lot of frigid air and much of the snow locked up in a single event. 09-10 had three massive, insane snowstorms, but, if we are being honest, the other 87 or so days of that winter kind of sucked both from a temperature and a snow/ice perspective. For the old-timers in the forum, I would submit that 1977/78 was not too far behind 93/94 and this year. 77/78 featured 6 snow events of 4+" (including 13" and 14" storms) along with a multitude of smaller events. It was also one of the PHL seasons to hold the record (broken this year) with three 6+" snowstorms in a single winter. As far as cold goes, there were a staggering 50 days that winter with lows in the teens or below. It was pretty much continuously cold with one plowable snowstorm per week from New Years until St. Patrick's Day 1978. Between February 5, 1978 (which marked the start of a 14.1" storm) and March 8, 1978, there was continuous deep snowcover at PHL with only 4 days exceeding 35 F and only one day exceeding 40 F (that one day got to all of 41 F). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noctilucent Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 93-94 had less snow, more ice (my nephew ice-skating in his backyard!). We never lost power in 94, so in that sense this winter was worse. The cold and frequency of the events this year remind me a bit of 93-94, but it started later in 94. I'm at 52" so far this winter. 95-96 gave me 72"...so not even close there. I can say that I am almost 20 years older than 95-96 and in that sense this winter is "worse" as far as the physical toll upon me. It's hard to know where to rank this winter.....it's not over yet....but....it's WAY up there on this list for the combination and frequency of winter events and their effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSky Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 What was Allentown's snow total for 1978? I know they were high being north of the snow line in 1994 but looking at old maps for january 1978 there were several rain snow line events through the philly burbs that they could have done well on. I remember a couple snow events ending with ice on top in 1978 in Horsham, and the February blizzard brought 3' snowdrifts that really impressed me as a kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurricane Agnes Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 One big stat of note differentiating 1993 - 1994 & 2013 - 2014 was that in January 1994 (1/19/94), KPHL posted a min of -5F, the last time the city has had an "official" below 0F temp. I've tended to speculate that after the lifting of the downtown building height restrictions (~1984, where skyscrapers could now be built at a height taller than Billy Penn's hat on the statue atop City Hall ), the city has become more and more dense in the center with a huge proliferation of towers, making it more of a heat sink over the past 30 years. This doesn't mean that a more brutal arctic blast than we've experienced the past year couldn't make a run at it here, but I expect some of the single digit temps that we did have this year probably would have been below 0s had it not been for the zoning change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ_Ken Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 What was Allentown's snow total for 1978? I know they were high being north of the snow line in 1994 but looking at old maps for january 1978 there were several rain snow line events through the philly burbs that they could have done well on. I remember a couple snow events ending with ice on top in 1978 in Horsham, and the February blizzard brought 3' snowdrifts that really impressed me as a kid. I can't seem to find ABE's official numbers anywhere. I did find a Top 5 snowfall seasons for ABE. 1977/78 was not on the list and the no. 5 season was 65.2" so 1977/78 must have been less than 65.2". Regardless, I agree with you. February into March 1978, the immediate PHL area jackpotted in several storms, but in January 1978, there were three storms that were oh-so-close for PHL but ended up being partial misses (due to changeover). See below: January 13-14, 1978: 1.66" liquid equiv at PHL but turned to rain after 3" of snow. High temp: 33 F. January 17-18, 1978: 1.71" liquid equiv at PHL but turned to rain after 4.4" of snow. High temp: 40 F. January 19-20, 1978: 2.28" liquid equiv at PHL but turned to sleet/rain after 13.2". High Temp: 36 F. That was a heck of a week of weather for PHL (over 20" of snow total), but somebody north and/or west of PHL... ABE sure seems like a good candidate... likely had a huge storm from each of these events. Whichever city that was, they had an insane week of weather and must have had Buffalo, NY or Erie, PA-like snowcover by the time January 20, 1978 rolled around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunny and Warm Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 The first year I thought of when reading the OP was 77/78. While it wasn't as snowy over all (close though), it was colder and had two superstorms within a month of each other. Until the March 1993 storm, the OV blizzard had some of the strongest barometric pressures ever seen in either the OV or EC. 1993/94 was certainly another memorable year, but moreso north of the turnpike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I can't seem to find ABE's official numbers anywhere. This may be of some assistance: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cdo-web/datasets/GHCND/stations/GHCND:USW00014737/detail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 What was Allentown's snow total for 1978? I know they were high being north of the snow line in 1994 but looking at old maps for january 1978 there were several rain snow line events through the philly burbs that they could have done well on. I remember a couple snow events ending with ice on top in 1978 in Horsham, and the February blizzard brought 3' snowdrifts that really impressed me as a kid. 55.6" in 1977-78. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violentweatherfan Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 If we get a "payoff" with one more MECS or SECS during suggested period of late February early March it would be hard to argue. Even some of the snow lovers on this board are hinting they need a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ_Ken Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 This may be of some assistance: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cdo-web/datasets/GHCND/stations/GHCND:USW00014737/detail Great stuff, Ray. I am not sure how I managed to avoid finding that page over the years, but I can't wait to waste more time.... er, I mean, use my time wisely... there. Back to the original point of asking about ABE in 1978, I am kind of shocked at how poorly the Lehigh Valley did for snow in January 1978. Mind you, it was still a great month there (just as it was at PHL), but I had always envisioned that they literally had twice as much snow as Philly did and it turns out they actually totaled a little bit less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDoppler Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I've lived just southwest of Allentown my whole life. At this location anyway......I'd say 93-94 still has the lead, though not by much. Total snowfall is still about 8" behind 94, and it was even colder that year. The worst thing about 94 was that 6 or so week assault with absolutely no mercy. I recall going above freezing 2 days during that stretch. (or at least enough to actually melt a little snow) I used to work in Red Hill during that winter, and for Red Hill I'm not so sure which is worst. They missed out on at least 2 good storms that we had up this way. Now if we do get significant snowfall until spring........I'm inclined to give the nod to this year even up this way. Why? Length of season. 93-94 didn't really start until January. Even though we didn't have a white Christmas this year, by the end of December winter was already starting to seem "long" compared to our normal wimpy winters. Remember that is IF we do get another storm this year.....if not in my opinion 93-94 was marginally worse from the Lehigh/Berks Co. lines on NW. Either way I'd rate 93-94 and this winter as #1 and #2 pending outcome. #3 was 95-96.......we had good snows in December already that year too up this way. I had 10" of glacier on the ground before the big one hit at my house. Those lake cutters ruined it though....would have been #1 easy if that first cutter hadn't had hit. There were others afterwards but that first one took the cake... (60F with 3 inches of rain? ) 09-10, 02-03 are about a tie at my location when figuring both snow and cold. (09-10 a little more snow, but 02-03 colder with the best storm.....meh a tie) I was too young in 77-78 to judge.....but I know for awhile there was a ton of snow on the ground, at least to my short 6 year old body lol. 83-84 would be my honorable mention. Not a lot of snow but very cold with many days of snow cover. 2000-2001 I keep forgetting that.....not bad either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDoppler Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 If we get a "payoff" with one more MECS or SECS during suggested period of late February early March it would be hard to argue. Even some of the snow lovers on this board are hinting they need a break. LOL me included. It's this crappy awning I had installed a few years ago. I have to keep raking it and it's really wearing on me. Next year let it snow (I'll have it redone and reinforced by then) If it weren't for that I'd be cheering more snow and cold.......but I'd rather not have a collapsed awning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCT777 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Darth - how was 1986-87 for you? That one was my favorite winter of the 80's. It's still in my Top 5 of "worst" winters (as most winter-haters would say), behind '93-'94, this winter, '95-'96 and 2009-10. It's a hair ahead of 2002-03. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief83 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I think 1994 and 2014 are equally memorable. In 1994 I remember road crews using front end loaders to not plow the road but actually use the loader to break up and then pick up ice and snow in blocks or chunks 5" or 6" thick. Then dumping them into a dump truck to be hauled away. Moving down the street a bucket load at a time. (Hours to just do one block) This was caused by cars driving over it for days and days and packing it solid and literally 5" thick. I have never seen anything like that before or after. This year - Having no power for 104 hours is also pretty memorable. I think memories are made by events and not just measureable snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDoppler Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Darth - how was 1986-87 for you? That one was my favorite winter of the 80's. It's still in my Top 5 of "worst" winters (as most winter-haters would say), behind '93-'94, this winter, '95-'96 and 2009-10. It's a hair ahead of 2002-03. I remember: A 8" snow to slop to snow around early-mid Jan. 13~14" big snowstorm late Jan, followed by a 2" snowfall that hit Philly much harder a few days later. Then that late Feb 7" that nailed the more immediate burbs harder. That 8" I don't think amounted to much down your way......but the later storms did. (so a tie I guess) It was good by 80's standards. The next year we had a wet 16" that Red Hill got 8" out of........that was an exciting school bus ride home (it had just started snowing in Red Hill because it had rained all day there until 3.......but coming up the hill towards home it turned into a winter wonderland!) April 23, 1986 we had 7" of wet snow....latest date I ever saw snow in my life at my local... It's kinda sad how easy the winters of the 80's were to remember lol. (because they didn't deliver much) (for instance there were some storms during 93-94 that I can't place my memories with the dates because there were a few that seemed like total repeats.........although some of them I do of course remember distinctly. This year is going to be trouble to remember also.........good thing I finally started keeping a log lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDoppler Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I think 1994 and 2014 are equally memorable. In 1994 I remember road crews using front end loaders to not plow the road but actually use the loader to break up and then pick up ice and snow in blocks or chunks 5" or 6" thick. Then dumping them into a dump truck to be hauled away. Moving down the street a bucket load at a time. (Hours to just do one block) This was caused by cars driving over it for days and days and packing it solid and literally 5" thick. I have never seen anything like that before or after. This year - Having no power for 104 hours is also pretty memorable. I think memories are made by events and not just measureable snow. Very true. Up this way 94 was a bit snowier vs icy (although still a good amount of ice) but I'll always remember that storm we had just before the record cold. I remember 8" of snow, heavy freezing rain, then 5" of snow on top of that. (no break in between) The next morning it was 10F.......got home at 7ishPM it was -6 already! I woke up to -18 that morning..........all of that snow/ice was 5-6" thick on the roads and it was on there for a week or more. That was some white knuckle driving! (not only the ice but you really didn't want to have an accident in THAT cold....) EDIT Off topic but DAMN!! Check out the webcams and forecast for Mt. Rainier..... (yes I check webcams and forecasts for RMNP, Mt. Rainier, and couple of other places to get a little snow fix everyday lol) You know a place rocks when a winter storm warning requires 12" in 12 hours or less or 18" in 24 hours to qualify! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Very true. Up this way 94 was a bit snowier vs icy (although still a good amount of ice) but I'll always remember that storm we had just before the record cold. I remember 8" of snow, heavy freezing rain, then 5" of snow on top of that. (no break in between) The next morning it was 10F.......got home at 7ishPM it was -6 already! I woke up to -18 that morning..........all of that snow/ice was 5-6" thick on the roads and it was on there for a week or more. That was some white knuckle driving! (not only the ice but you really didn't want to have an accident in THAT cold....) EDIT Off topic but DAMN!! Check out the webcams and forecast for Mt. Rainier..... (yes I check webcams and forecasts for RMNP, Mt. Rainier, and couple of other places to get a little snow fix everyday lol) You know a place rocks when a winter storm warning requires 12" in 12 hours or less or 18" in 24 hours to qualify! And they're running below normal for this year ftp://ftp.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/data/water/wcs/gis/maps/wa_swepctnormal_update.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmn Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 This is my 45th winter. Most have been spent in central and western NJ. I cant remember a winter with such long sustained cold. My snowpack now is around 20" of hard packed snow. There has been snow on the ground for the majority of winter. We have had 13 days fall below 0F for lows with the coldest being -10F which was the coldest reading since 1985 here. Outside 1978 and 94 I don't think we have had a harsher winter and we still have a month. On a side note. I lived in Vermont and Maine for a few years. While this winter isn't as cold and snowy as I witnessed up there it reminded me of what winter is like in northern New England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allsnow Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Epic winter…epic February….Keeps snowing in Philly what a month it has been…winter of olds NYC: -4.7 28.8 snowfall season 57.1 EWR -5.7 30 snowfall season 60.2 PHL -4.8 21.3 snowfall season 58.4 With today's snowfall, it is now the snowiest January-February period on record at Central Park. 48.5" this year beats 47.2" in 1996 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KamuSnow Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Just focusing in on the last 4 weeks (Tuesday Jan. 21st to Tuesday February 18th), what a stretch of winter weather. Plenty of cold, and in this area (Concord Township), a snowpack to show for it consisting of 8 measurable snowfalls (counting last Thursday's 2 part event as one event) along with a few dustings, and a layer of ice cubes in the middle from the ice storm. I know up north there have been more measurable snowfalls, but to be able to count 8 separate events (plus an ice storm) in one snowpack has got to be pretty rare around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowwors2 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Am I the only one that is bothered by the title of this thread.... as intense and in cases difficult as it's been it IS THE winter we have all dreamed and chased for years!!!! How about "....the absolute Best Worst winter..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KamuSnow Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Am I the only one that is bothered by the title of this thread.... as intense and in cases difficult as it's been it IS THE winter we have all dreamed and chased for years!!!! How about "....the absolute Best Worst winter..." I had a similar thought, like "...Worst Best...". NEchestercountydude expressed a similar sentiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Epic winter…epic February….Keeps snowing in Philly what a month it has been…winter of olds NYC: -4.7 28.8 snowfall season 57.1 EWR -5.7 30 snowfall season 60.2 PHL -4.8 21.3 snowfall season 58.4 With today's snowfall, it is now the snowiest January-February period on record at Central Park. 48.5" this year beats 47.2" in 1996 January-February 1996 had 47.3" snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I had a similar thought, like "...Worst Best...". NEchestercountydude expressed a similar sentiment. Just change "worst" to "most severe" and everybody's happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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