clskinsfan Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 If you draw a line from Hagerstown to Westminster to York and over to Philiadelphia, that's been the sweet spot this year. I think Philly is over 55 inches and BWI is still under 30 inches. That has got to be one the biggest spreads ever between the two locations. As far as the snowfall averages go for this area, most of the area averages around 35. The knowledgeable locals say 37 for Manchester and 34-35 for Westminster. The highest hills and ridges push 40. I was told by someone who has lived here for over 40 years that there is a weather observer that has been keeping accurate records for Manchester since the 1960's and his long term average for Manchester is right at 37. As you go east of here towards Mapgirl averages dip but only slightly to around 32 or so. You need to bring that western line down south some. But good post. And as far as averages go. A lot of us live on ridges and that just throws averages out the window. Winchester seasonal is like 25. But you go 10 mile NW of there and its 30+ easily. Elevation is everything in the MA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 This topo map shows very clearly why westminster - manchester - parkton will almost always score more than the cities most years. Orographic influence, a little less latitude, and elevation subtracting 2-3 degrees on average from the lowlanders = more snow 98% of the time. parrs.JPG I think the idea lost here in this discussion is that many spots which normally do well well west and well north are way above normal compared to those in the 95 corridor and east which are a bit above ytd but close to climo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchnick Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Well, wet trashcan toppers are depressing enough by themselves, but I was mainly referring to the person sitting on the bench huddled in a wet-snow covered blanket. that's who I thought you were talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roundhillsnow Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Every bit of elevation in our area make a huge difference especially in marginal events, out here in western Loudoun county we average about 24" per year but just to our west on mount weather they average 40+ " per year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Chill Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I think the idea lost here in this discussion is that many spots which normally do well well west and well north are way above normal compared to those in the 95 corridor and east which are a bit above ytd but close to climo. Yea, close in got hosed with temps mostly. The disparity wouldn't be nearly as bad if the precip bomb in Jan wasn't a complete rainer here. The early Dec stuff was mostly temp issues as well. Change in local climate? I suppose our days of scoring sketchy temp storms aren't what they used to be. Also, look at philly. They are simply having a steller year. We've seen a lot of repeating bullseyes through the years as well. The areas north are close to philly latitude. We may be revisiting the new subforum grand opening if this happens again next year. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighStakes Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 You need to bring that western line down south some. But good post. And as far as averages go. A lot of us live on ridges and that just throws averages out the window. Winchester seasonal is like 25. But you go 10 mile NW of there and its 30+ easily. Elevation is everything in the MA. Yeah, you're right. I actually was going to, but for sake of simplicity I just made it a straight line. Just look at Cumberland stuck in a valley. Go a few mile east or west and averages jump considerably. I think the ULL performed so well here was because the higher hill enhanced the bands. The heavy bands kinda developed right over us and slightly to our east then back in. Westminster got into it but it did not advanced much more westward, leaving the western part of Carroll and Fredrick County mostly dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gymengineer Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I think the idea lost here in this discussion is that many spots which normally do well well west and well north are way above normal compared to those in the 95 corridor and east which are a bit above ytd but close to climo. This winter's gradient is similar to 92/93, complete with DCA getting around half of IAD in the storm of the season and anyone N and W having a good winter. It's one of the unusual winters where IAD and DCA aren't fairly close compared to climo percent-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchnick Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 This winter's gradient is similar to 92/93, complete with DCA getting around half of IAD in the storm of the season and anyone N and W having a good winter. It's one of the unusual winters where IAD and DCA aren't fairly close compared to climo percent-wise. fortunately for my sanity, this winter has been a whole lot better than 92/93 in the snow dept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighStakes Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 This winter's gradient is similar to 92/93, complete with DCA getting around half of IAD in the storm of the season and anyone N and W having a good winter. It's one of the unusual winters where IAD and DCA aren't fairly close compared to climo percent-wise. It's definitely been strange. the gradient is very extreme for a lot of relatively close locations. Ravensrule and nw balt wx have over 20 inches more than BWI. Probably only roughly 15 miles apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WxUSAF Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 It's definitely been strange. the gradient is very extreme for a lot of relatively close locations. Ravensrule and nw balt wx have over 20 inches more than BWI. Probably only roughly 15 miles apart. I've got ~15" more and I'm not even that far. But I'm above the fall line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldie 22 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 This topo map shows very clearly why westminster - manchester - parkton will almost always score more than the cities most years. Orographic influence, a little less latitude, and elevation subtracting 2-3 degrees on average from the lowlanders = more snow 98% of the time. parrs.JPG That map shows the down sloping that kills thunderstorms and clippers in leesburg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Chill Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 That map shows the down sloping that kills thunderstorms and clippers in leesburg Move east my friend. Move east. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldie 22 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Move east my friend. Move east. I'm happy here .... Born and raised in Takoma Park...and also lived in Woodbridge....I know all of the pains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozz Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 This winter's gradient is similar to 92/93, complete with DCA getting around half of IAD in the storm of the season and anyone N and W having a good winter. It's one of the unusual winters where IAD and DCA aren't fairly close compared to climo percent-wise. I was thinking it reminded me more of 93-94, not only with the bitter cold and zr events, but also the very tight gradient between those getting epic snow totals vs. meh totals. Seems like this year the gradient is a little further south, but not south enough for most of the DC folks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I was thinking it reminded me more of 93-94, not only with the bitter cold and zr events, but also the very tight gradient between those getting epic snow totals vs. meh totals. Seems like this year the gradient is a little further south, but not south enough for most of the DC folks Not sure we need to feel too bad for DC folks at this pt either. Getting to 15"+ is always a good winter these days. Maybe further southeast but seems like even there it's not terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoVaSnow Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I think the idea lost here in this discussion is that many spots which normally do well well west and well north are way above normal compared to those in the 95 corridor and east which are a bit above ytd but close to climo. This winter's gradient is similar to 92/93, complete with DCA getting around half of IAD in the storm of the season and anyone N and W having a good winter. It's one of the unusual winters where IAD and DCA aren't fairly close compared to climo percent-wise. Through yesterday, DCA is at 133% of climo, and IAD is at 197%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gymengineer Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Yea, close in got hosed with temps mostly. The disparity wouldn't be nearly as bad if the precip bomb in Jan wasn't a complete rainer here. The early Dec stuff was mostly temp issues as well. Change in local climate? I suppose our days of scoring sketchy temp storms aren't what they used to be. Also, look at philly. They are simply having a steller year. We've seen a lot of repeating bullseyes through the years as well. The areas north are close to philly latitude. We may be revisiting the new subforum grand opening if this happens again next year. LOL Well this year it's an even smaller group of people than the normal "closer in." You and I are over 30" which has to be considered a good winter and I'm only like 8 miles from DC. It's really only the lowest elevations that haven't had a very good season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MN Transplant Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Through yesterday, DCA is at 133% of climo, and IAD is at 197%. I'm about halfway distance-wise between the two, and I'm sitting at about 185% of normal season-to-date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnis Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Parr's Ridge.pdfHere is a Bob's Topo map with some locations added for those who are not familiar with MD geography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoast NPZ Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Parr's Ridge With Locations.pdfHere is a Bob's Topo map with some locations added for those who are not familiar with MD geography. Helpful. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattie g Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 new term...homlesstopper As long as they're really lazy, you can get a good measurement from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattie g Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I'm about halfway distance-wise between the two, and I'm sitting at about 185% of normal season-to-date. Our snowfall obs have been really close bus year. You live a little farther north and east and I think you're a little lower in elevation. But I average 21"/year or so and have 28.5" this year, so I'm at 135-140% of average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Chill Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Lightening strike map is heating up over mattie g's house right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER53 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Really want to ponder a question. Ask yourself how, during a raging snowstorm with 1"ph rates, with all surfaces already covered by 3" of snow, could DCA be at 27* while Nationals Stadium is at 22 and all surrounds are 22-24. UHI is NOT a Magic Umbrella. There have to be heating elements of the UHI that are operative and during a raging snowstorm there are no UHI elements-it's al been smoothed out by the time of day, snowcover & snowfall. The only entity that is not snow covered are the sides of buildings. So, if you believe that the radiant heat from the sides of buildings can cause DCA to be 5* higher than sites in the immediate surrounds at 3am in the morning, with heavy snow, and full snowcover, then keep on believin' because that's all it is-a belief and not reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoast NPZ Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Really want to ponder a question. Ask yourself how, during a raging snowstorm with 1"ph rates, with all surfaces already covered by 3" of snow, could DCA be at 27* while Nationals Stadium is at 22 and all surrounds are 22-24. UHI is NOT a Magic Umbrella. There have to be heating elements of the UHI that are operative and during a raging snowstorm there are no UHI elements-it's al been smoothed out by the time of day, snowcover & snowfall. The only entity that is not snow covered are the sides of buildings. So, if you believe that the radiant heat from the sides of buildings can cause DCA to be 5* higher than sites in the immediate surrounds at 3am in the morning, with heavy snow, and full snowcover, then keep on believin' because that's all it is-a belief and not reality. Nearby river? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoVaSnow Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Really want to ponder a question. Ask yourself how, during a raging snowstorm with 1"ph rates, with all surfaces already covered by 3" of snow, could DCA be at 27* while Nationals Stadium is at 22 and all surrounds are 22-24. UHI is NOT a Magic Umbrella. There have to be heating elements of the UHI that are operative and during a raging snowstorm there are no UHI elements-it's al been smoothed out by the time of day, snowcover & snowfall. The only entity that is not snow covered are the sides of buildings. So, if you believe that the radiant heat from the sides of buildings can cause DCA to be 5* higher than sites in the immediate surrounds at 3am in the morning, with heavy snow, and full snowcover, then keep on believin' because that's all it is-a belief and not reality. Due to personal observation, I believe 95% of DCA temperature readings. I work in Crystal City. I can see the DCA tower from my office window (it's about 1/4 mile away). Over 7+ years of observation, I have calibrated my car thermometer to read +2. When I arrive at work at around 7am, I always note what the temp is in my car. Then I check the 7am obs at DCA. Most of the time, the DCA obs is 2 deg below my car obs. Snow measurements (which I know you also frequently question) may be a different story. However, there is something about the location of DCA and Crystal City that produces these temperatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deck Pic Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Really want to ponder a question. Ask yourself how, during a raging snowstorm with 1"ph rates, with all surfaces already covered by 3" of snow, could DCA be at 27* while Nationals Stadium is at 22 and all surrounds are 22-24. UHI is NOT a Magic Umbrella. There have to be heating elements of the UHI that are operative and during a raging snowstorm there are no UHI elements-it's al been smoothed out by the time of day, snowcover & snowfall. The only entity that is not snow covered are the sides of buildings. So, if you believe that the radiant heat from the sides of buildings can cause DCA to be 5* higher than sites in the immediate surrounds at 3am in the morning, with heavy snow, and full snowcover, then keep on believin' because that's all it is-a belief and not reality. more erroneous facts...I enjoy your posts H--ward, but almost every single time you post on these issues you have to be fact checked....being constantly wrong with facts makes for very poor debate...Andrews and Belvoir were both 27 at 3am....Nationals park always reads low...not sure exactly what they were....this stuff became tiresome long ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MN Transplant Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Our snowfall obs have been really close bus year. You live a little farther north and east and I think you're a little lower in elevation. But I average 21"/year or so and have 28.5" this year, so I'm at 135-140% of average. I'm at ~470 ft, so I'm probably higher. My % was based on taking IAD's normal to date and shaving off an inch. The Vienna co-op observer's average is 21", so that is about what I'm at. Yeah, otherwise my 27" is about 130% of seasonal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MN Transplant Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Really want to ponder a question. Ask yourself how, during a raging snowstorm with 1"ph rates, with all surfaces already covered by 3" of snow, could DCA be at 27* while Nationals Stadium is at 22 and all surrounds are 22-24. UHI is NOT a Magic Umbrella. There have to be heating elements of the UHI that are operative and during a raging snowstorm there are no UHI elements-it's al been smoothed out by the time of day, snowcover & snowfall. The only entity that is not snow covered are the sides of buildings. So, if you believe that the radiant heat from the sides of buildings can cause DCA to be 5* higher than sites in the immediate surrounds at 3am in the morning, with heavy snow, and full snowcover, then keep on believin' because that's all it is-a belief and not reality. Did you check the obs when the river was frozen over? Dead on with everyone else. I'm thinking that very close body of water makes a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattie g Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I'm at ~470 ft, so I'm probably higher. My % was based on taking IAD's normal to date and shaving off an inch. The Vienna co-op observer's average is 21", so that is about what I'm at. Yeah, otherwise my 27" is about 130% of seasonal. Ahh...gotcha. I'm too lazy to figure out average to date. But it looks like we're at the same relative to normal overall. Makes sense. I didn't realize the was that much elevation inside the Beltway. You're about 140' higher than I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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