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NYC/PHL 12/21-12/27 Forecast Threats


am19psu

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Can't quite make out the upper levels (850/700) from the maps I'm looking at, but if things play out as the Euro depicts, there's appears to be some moisture influx, albeit a little late, from the GoM, which should help with the QPF.

Like we always say, we're gonna thread the needle with this aspect as well. Too much backing of the flow and wrapping up and we'll be shaking Buckeye's hand; too little and we'll be looking at a PHL-south moderate event. Somewhere in the middle lies weenie nirvana.

I should also add that I'm a little nervous that it's the Euro's bias that sets the table perfectly for the stream interaction, but as was said before, it still outperforms the other models in this range despite said bias.

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As I said last week, nobody should spend too much time on solutions which appear to be outliers. The one Euro solution that gave a big hit last week had virtually no support excpet from a few ensemble members. This time around, even though the 00z Euro appears to be an outlier, it has much better support from the other models. As one met said on the main thread, the NOGAPS seems to have a quick bias and if the GFS follows that model closely, its possible that the GFS is also too quick. The 00z ECMWF ensemble mean seems to split the difference and that would mean a nice hit for most of us. Last week the overwhelming mean had just a brush and thats more or less what happened.

Sounds like typical GFS to me....first to catch onto a major event but has no support. I remember one met saying that its solutions didn't even make sense considering its synoptic setup. Then...it looses the storm a few runs later only to bring it back 96-84hrs out. Look for it to be in good agreement with the euro by 12z or 00z.

:thumbsup::snowman:

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not sure if I like the look of the NAM...the s/w is very strong so that's good...but it's also ripping through the lower 48, i don't think it would phase in time to give us a euro/ggem liike solution. nevertheless, we would probably still see some (good?) snows

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something to note out the Mt. Holly AFD

THE DRIVER IN THIS WHOLE PROCESS IS GOING TO BE A VORTEX OVER THE

EASTERN PACIFIC, THAT WILL PUMP UP THE RIDGING OVER THE ROCKIES AND

DOWNSTREAM CARVE A STRONG TROF. THE UNCERTAINTY RIGHT OFF THE BAT

AND FOR THE LIFETIME OF THIS EVENT IS THAT EASTERN PACIFIC VORTEX

WHICH IS NEVER FORECAST TO REACH THE DATA RICH RAOB SITES IN NORTH

AMERICA, BUT WITH TIME RETROGRADE TOWARD ALASKA. WE WILL BE ABLE TO

MEASURE THE STRENGTH OF THE ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDGING AS A BY-PRODUCT

OF THE FORMER`S INFLUENCE. ON TONIGHT`S RUN THE MODEL EVOLUTION IN

GENERAL WAS TOWARD STRONGER RIDGING OVER THE ROCKIES. CONSEQUENTLY

THE LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM IS FORECAST TO MAKE A GREATER TURN EXITING

THE ROCKIES VS THE BEE-LINE THE MODELS GAVE IT LAST NIGHT FOR THE

EAST COAST. THIS HAS SLOWED THE PCPN ARRIVAL DOWN ON AVERAGE BY HALF

A DAY. THE ECMWF DIGS THE INITIAL TROF MORE THAN ANY MODEL IN THE

DESERT SOUTHWEST AND FOR NOW THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED WITH CAUTION AS

IT IS A KNOWN MODEL BIAS. IT MADE THE SAME ERROR WITH THE PRESENT

SYSTEM. FOR WHAT ITS WORTH THE ECMWF ENSEMBLE MEAN IS FASTER AND

NOT AS TUCKED INTO THE NJ COAST. THE OP ECMWF SOLUTION AS IS WOULD

CHANGE THE SNOW TO RAIN FOR A WHILE IN EASTERN NEW JERSEY.

CONVERSELY THE CURRENT GFS SOLUTION IS ON THE FAST SIDE OF THE

ENVELOPE AND THAT`S ITS KNOWN MODEL BIAS. FOR THE GOLDILOCKS

COMPROMISE TONIGHT WITH ANY ADJUSTMENTS WE MADE, WE WENT WITH A

UKMET AND CAN GGEM COMPROMISE.

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not sure if I like the look of the NAM...the s/w is very strong so that's good...but it's also ripping through the lower 48, i don't think it would phase in time to give us a euro/ggem liike solution. nevertheless, we would probably still see some (good?) snows

And what happens if the euro didnt phase? WAY south and no snow for our area.

Would rather take my chances with a more northerly storm that even if it misses the phase, we still get decent snow.

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And what happens if the euro didnt phase? WAY south and no snow for our area.

Would rather take my chances with a more northerly storm that even if it misses the phase, we still get decent snow.

With this system I'm thinking even that won't help...notice on most models in the last 24 hours or so that by the time the system reaches the DC region its got very little precip left, the forcing really goes into the crapper as it reaches the OH Valley...this has to phase for anyone east of the Apps to see major snows....its not uncommon for these west-east movers to die as they get past the Chicago-St. Louis corridor, thats why it always helps to have a strong high over either Quebec or Maine to increase the overrunning impact.

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Bump for 12z gfs, taking bets right now.....

lol I'm not sure the GFS is ever going to catch onto this. Mt. Holly mentioned that the S/W in question will never be entering an area where it will be sampled better. I definitly think the higher res of the GGEM and Euro are helping their solutions. I hope it takes a track at least as nice as the 00z EC ensemble means but I'm guessing scrape.

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f

Its going to be a scraper or a complete miss, thats my guess, this tends to be the range where the GFS is often on the polar opposite with the Euro on these things.

I find it interesting how the GFS and Euro seem to completely switch places on who's most bullish with the storm.

The change too place at 0z last night, and I wonder what causes this because it happens often.

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