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12z Models 2/11/2014 | Potential Major Coastal Storm


earthlight

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GFS has just over 0.50" qpf in NYC. It's not generating the qpf shown on the NAM, but qpf forecasts are still challenging from this far out. The 4k NAM and 0z ECMWF show a lot more qpf, so the GFS may be an outlier when it comes to qpf.

Just very strange to see a strong surface low with mid levels centers closed off in an ideal location to the east of you with a 6 hour qpf distribution of <0.10 in spots! Do you think this may have to do with the kicker preventing an expansive precip shield?

f60.gif

 

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The GFS will fully move towards all the other models on either its 00Z run or 06Z run tonight...its having its same issue again it had with the 2/5 storm last winter and one of the storms earlier this winter with the crazy low center issues...its usually been onto catching onto the other models right near the 48 hour mark all the times its done this.

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Ukie looks fine...much better than last night and good QPF with the 850's just getting into the city for a brief period of time.

The GFS, interestingly, is showing mostly snow on the precipitation-type graphics on wxbell. Not sure on accuracy but the soundings aren't as terrible as I figured they would be either.

The GFS cannot handle the complexity of this storm; shows a bomb but barely as much QPF as the other models. It won't get on board til the 00z's...
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GFS has just over 0.50" qpf in NYC. It's not generating the qpf shown on the NAM, but qpf forecasts are still challenging from this far out. The 4k NAM and 0z ECMWF show a lot more qpf, so the GFS may be an outlier when it comes to qpf.

GFS has just over 0.50" qpf in NYC. It's not generating the qpf shown on the NAM, but qpf forecasts are still challenging from this far out. The 4k NAM and 0z ECMWF show a lot more qpf, so the GFS may be an outlier when it comes to qpf.

Yes Don, add to GGEM to that as well as last few runs consistently showing over 1 inch QPF..

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Just very strange to see a strong surface low with mid levels centers closed off in an ideal location to the east of you with a 6 hour qpf distribution of <0.10 in spots! Do you think this may have to do with the kicker preventing an expansive precip shield?

f60.gif

 

I highly, highly doubt precip would be that weak NW of a closing 500mb low center. It's also almost certainly too warm. It's playing catchup to the other guidance-hopefully its track is good though.

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The difference at H5 on the NAM & UKMET are staggering; I'm leaning towards UKMET for a deeper storm right now, UKMET might look really good, but that is scraming dry slot into C NJ if right

 

UKMET:

attachicon.gifUKMET1.gif

 

NAM:

attachicon.gifNAM1.gif

Makes sense to me that the low will try to head close to due north for a time, maybe up to or just east of the Delmarva, and then fade ENE when the kicker catches up to it. Look at the 700mb low, if that is over or east of you, the dryslot is east of you. Hopefully we continue the trend of the mid level low centers east of the area.

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Just very strange to see a strong surface low with mid levels centers closed off in an ideal location to the east of you with a 6 hour qpf distribution of <0.10 in spots! Do you think this may have to do with the kicker preventing an expansive precip shield?

 

The kicker is slightly farther east on the GFS than on the NAM at that time, but there's no way it could have that much of a drying effect on the precip.  The GFS should correct itself in future runs.

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I think if there is anything everyone can agree on is that the gfs is unrealistic based on climo. You see allot more qpf with that track and less mid level warming

I am still worried about last minute western shifts as been the trend the euro should settle and the others shift slightly back west until they are in agreement tomorrow morning. I like to use climo and seasonal trends and that's had worked well this season

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Makes sense to me that the low will try to head close to due north for a time, maybe up to or just east of the Delmarva, and then fade ENE when the kicker catches up to it. Look at the 700mb low, if that is over or east of you, the dryslot is east of you. Hopefully we continue the trend of the mid level low centers east of the area.

What caused the massive dryslot in the 1/25/2000 storm? I thought the low stayed off the coast? I guess the placement of the 700mb low

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Just very strange to see a strong surface low with mid levels centers closed off in an ideal location to the east of you with a 6 hour qpf distribution of <0.10 in spots! Do you think this may have to do with the kicker preventing an expansive precip shield?

 

It's tough to tell. The other models also have the kicker and they see better development of the qpf. I suspect that the GFS has continued to steadily improve, but it doesn't develop the storm to the extent that much of the other guidance does. If my hypothesis is correct, then we'll see the GFS continue to trend toward the other guidance in its next few runs. This storm should have a lot of moisture, so I'm not too concerned about the GFS's idea right now.

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That's a gorgeous CCB signature behind a bombing 970's class low.

 

attachicon.gifukmet.gif

When I first saw the 48 hour 500 MB , my first reaction , was its surface has to be really well inside obx . Corrected at 60 - and was at the mouth of the Delware  , it bombs to the benchmark , nice CCB  signal - 850`s would just collapse into the center 

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I never said anyone threw it out... But there are many posts u can go back and read where the nam is being hugged tight now off 1 run... I'm just saying there's been a huge lack of mentioning the euros outputs on these model threads

Well its hard not to get excited when a model shows 18-24" of snow but most have enough common sense not to latch onto it when its just one run

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When I first saw the 48 hour 500 MB , my first reaction , was its surface has to be really well inside obx . Corrected at 60 - and was at the mouth of the Delware  , it bombs to the benchmark , nice CCB  signal - 850`s would just collapse into the center 

 

The models are going to be too warm with the surface in this storm with this track because they think the winds will be ESE or E...the setup is classic for the ageostrophic flow becoming more NE or NNE with the positioning of that high and the deepening low...this was part of the reason the models busted on 1/22/87.

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Yes Don, add to GGEM to that as well as last few runs consistently showing over 1 inch QPF..

The GGEM is on board, too. I hadn't looked at the 12z run at the time I had posted. The run-to-run continuity with the NAM, GGEM, and ECWMF (through 0z on the ECMWF) has been good. One can probably have confidence in the general idea of the storm's track with some details still to be worked out. Overall, it does look like it will have a significant impact on our area and I suspect that the GFS will come around in subsequent runs.   

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What caused the massive dryslot in the 1/25/2000 storm? I thought the low stayed off the coast? I guess the placement of the 700mb low

The low wrapped up very quickly and far west over the Delmarva, pretty much, where it occluded. The low closed off aloft when it was still south of Charleston. Also the kicker was very aggressive and opened the 500mb low back up. This time, the kicker seems weaker and more separated from the storm. Most models also show an closed 500mb low all the way up to New England, which would assist in having a heavy CCB band overhead.

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I never said anyone threw it out... But there are many posts u can go back and read where the nam is being hugged tight now off 1 run... I'm just saying there's been a huge lack of mentioning the euros outputs on these model threads

It's not just one run of the NAM though...3 of the 4 past NAM runs have shown a similar track at or near the BM with a ton of QPF and temps cold enough for most of us.  The Euro has been mentioned and is being taken into consideration but its next run doesn't come out until 1.

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Just very strange to see a strong surface low with mid levels centers closed off in an ideal location to the east of you with a 6 hour qpf distribution of <0.10 in spots! Do you think this may have to do with the kicker preventing an expansive precip shield?

f60.gif

 

that is exactly what is happening, and I would not count out the possiblity yet of the kicker having an impact in the final outcome. We need the kicker to prevent a more inland track, so it is a give and take with the precip sheild.  It is well sampled.  lets see how the rest of the model runs today handle the LP.  One upside is a colder solution means better ratios. 

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