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12z Models 2/11/2014 | Potential Major Coastal Storm


earthlight

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Snowgoose's point about the wind direction and how it applies to the models can't be stressed enough. Models are seeing ESE winds when in reality they are more to the NNE, NE which is why the models are a bit warmer than we would normally expect. Of course if the low tracks too far west, then this logic obviously won't apply until the low starts moving to the ENE away from the coast.

Exactly the nam saw this with mondays storm while the others didnt

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Snowgoose's point about the wind direction and how it applies to the models can't be stressed enough. Models are seeing ESE winds when in reality they are more to the NNE, NE which is why the models are a bit warmer than we would normally expect. Of course if the low tracks too far west, then this logic obviously won't apply until the low starts moving to the ENE away from the coast. 

I'm not concerned about surface warming-the concern is mid level warming. For little or no mixing, we need the mid level lows to go south of us. If the 850 low goes over or west of you, it will definitely get warm enough for rain in the mid levels.

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Snowgoose's point about the wind direction and how it applies to the models can't be stressed enough. Models are seeing ESE winds when in reality they are more to the NNE, NE which is why the models are a bit warmer than we would normally expect. Of course if the low tracks too far west, then this logic obviously won't apply until the low starts moving to the ENE away from the coast. 

 

Exactly the nam saw this with mondays storm while the others didnt

Yeh but if you have a center at AC you are easterly , You don`t switch until the center comes east of you , so you have to respect the warm punch at 850 

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Snowgoose's point about the wind direction and how it applies to the models can't be stressed enough. Models are seeing ESE winds when in reality they are more to the NNE, NE which is why the models are a bit warmer than we would normally expect. Of course if the low tracks too far west, then this logic obviously won't apply until the low starts moving to the ENE away from the coast. 

Its perhaps among the 2 or 3 most salient anysis points thus far today. People rush to nearest bridge when they see a warmer model, one always has to ask why.

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Don,

Is it possible to give approximate snow amounts for nj/ny based on each model in inches.

This will help everyone.

Thanks

With the Euro, I haven't really had a chance to dig into soundings. Very approximate guess, amounts range from 8"14" in Morristown to 5"-10" in NYC. The CCB produces about half of the snow for MMU. NYC sees its 850 mb temperature briefly surge past +3°C.

 

The Euro is a plausible solution. However, it should be noted that there have been cases where the Euro becomes a little overamplified near an event only to back off shortly thereafter. The current model spread certainly allows for such an outcome, but we'll see what happens.

 

The SREFs and NAM will soon weigh in with fresh ideas.

 

If pressed, a first guess would be 4"-8" in NYC, 3"-6" at BLM, and 6"-12" at MMU taking into consideration the guidance through 12z.

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I think some people are forgetting that we have several more model suites before the storms arrival - perhaps as we have been used to storms popping out of nowhere which reduced number of model suites to track.  Though the margin of change drops as zero hour approaches, additional (and likely somewhat meaningful) changes WILL occur. 

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From this thread I still don't know if its a raging blizzard or a complete disaster.

You get a decent front end thump for 6-8 hours...then

post-2304-0-87391000-1392146163_thumb.pn

 

NNJ gets some decent CCB snows at the end but NYC itself never changes back over to all snow.

post-2304-0-84947400-1392146170_thumb.pn

Those snowfall maps have faulty calculations, they assume stuff is snow that is not snow.  They are only good in situations where you don't have to worry about a warm layer somewhere. 

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Focusing on LI, Nassau and Suffolk east: 15-20mm of snow (5-8 inches), followed by 40mm+ rain (1.5 inches). mega slop. Can that be right?

GGEM is probably overdone and too warm. I don't think even the Euro was that bad. But hopefully we see a shift back east tonight on these models, they are amped enough that a fair amount of rain becomes a concern on the coast.

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Yeh but if you have a center at AC you are easterly , You don`t switch until the center comes east of you , so you have to respect the warm punch at 850 

Yea Paul if it does end up next to AC we would be in some trouble. I am not buying it yet though. I still think it goes slightly (30 - 50 miles) west over the warmer water. I remember arguing this last year with the Feb storm, which ultimately happened. The gradient of ther SST will also increase once it kicks up the southerly swell.

post-4195-0-09729700-1392146503_thumb.gi

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Yea Paul if it does end up next to AC we would be in some trouble. I am not buying it yet though. I still think it goes slightly (30 - 50 miles) west over the warmer water. I remember arguing this last year with the Feb storm, which ultimately happened. The gradient of ther SST will also increase once it kicks up the southerly swell.

Even if it does end up near AC it goes ENE after that not due north so I would think that will really affect where the mix/changeover ends up

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Yea Paul if it does end up next to AC we would be in some trouble. I am not buying it yet though. I still think it goes slightly (30 - 50 miles) west over the warmer water. I remember arguing this last year with the Feb storm, which ultimately happened. The gradient of ther SST will also increase once it kicks up the southerly swell.

Coming off OBX and to the mouth of the Delaware , i just don`t see the confluence to jump this east . 

I think its on the coast and was hoping to see the Euro come 25 - 50  mile east , it didn`t , kissed the coast 

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Coming off OBX and to the mouth of the Delaware , i just don`t see the confluence to jump this east . 

I think its on the coast and was hoping to see the Euro come 25 - 50  mile east , it didn`t , kissed the coast 

Yea we still have time to change, a 50 mile shift is nothing esp this winter (in this time frame) lol. The SST boundary from what I observed is usually where the cape and other dynamics hit a wall. So heavier thunderstorms will normally be more to the east (in this case) and help pull the lowest pressure towards them.

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For those like me on the coast you better hope for more of a UKMET/NAM/GFS compromise. I dont like to rely on wraparound moisture as it almost never works out and ends up just being light. The EURO still being the western most of the guidance is worrisome. We still have to 0z and tommorows 12z though to see if it can tick east like 40-50 miles

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