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The Big One - Forecast & Discussion


Wow

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One of the most interesting things I've seen is the UK, which has a terrible warm bias, is by far the coldest model at the 850 level. Makes you wonder if the others are too warm.

 

I almost never look at the UK as the information is so lacking, but the track held.  GFS is the farthest east solution, you know it will tick back west.  Would be good if it had a warm bias.

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Something about the thermal profiles on the GFS is flawed...

Check out the profile for KMRN @ 60 and then @ 66 and tell me what's wrong? Also scroll down and look at some of the convective indices?

@60:  http://vortex.plymouth.edu/cgi-bin/gen_grbsnd.cgi?id=KMRN&mo=gfs_avn_us&pl=out4&ft=h60&cu=latest&pt=parcel&size=640x480

@66: http://vortex.plymouth.edu/cgi-bin/gen_grbsnd.cgi?id=KMRN&mo=gfs_avn_us&pl=out4&ft=h66&cu=latest&pt=parcel&size=640x480

 

 

Crazy increase in lower-level temps over that 6-hour period?  Why would that occur?

 

The convective indices are above my head...

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Crazy increase in lower-level temps over that 6-hour period?  Why would that occur?

 

The convective indices are above my head...

 

 

I'm not experienced in all the convective values either...maybe a red tagger can educate us on that. But those temps at 66 were really bogus looking and it really showed in the clown maps having less snow.

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Looks like a few areas were decreased slightly - Clemson to Anderson went down, as did Greenville (think Greenville was over 8" with the last one.) That map perfectly illustrates what I observe virtually every time, where the eastern upstate (Spartanburg/Cherokee/York) get more than western upstate. This time I guess it is due to precip not making it far enough west instead of to down-sloping. 

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Yeah I was surprised at Fishel's forecast.  I don't think we have seen any model that would indicate such an early shift to ice (and after, even rain).  NAM seems to come closest to suggesting that, but this seemed even warmer (and I presume more west) than even the most recent NAM.  Maybe he's going with an in-house model or just following his gut (and he does have years of experience).  He also didn't even discuss totals (not even liquid equivalent) -- just felt a bit rushed considering the potential significance of the storm we've got coming up the coast.

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Regarding the UK, doesn't a stronger low offshore like is depicted usually mean a sharper cut-off on precip to the W/NW as well as chocking off WNC / upstate SC snow earlier due to transferring energy to the low?  Seems like that is what happened with January 2000 in particular.

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Fishel hinting at RDU possibly starting as a little snow and then right into the sleet.  I wonder if that's their in house model or if they are closely following the NAM.

You wouldn't think anything outside a run-of-the-mill winter weather event is on the way by watching them this evening. That may turn out correct. These extreme solutions usually don't quite pan out. But based on every model I've seen, except the Euro, RDU stays frozen throughout.

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Regarding the UK, doesn't a stronger low offshore like is depicted usually mean a sharper cut-off on precip to the W/NW as well as chocking off WNC / upstate SC snow earlier due to transferring energy to the low?  Seems like that is what happened with January 2000 in particular.

That sounds right to me. I think the stronger low results in tighter rotation which leads to a sharper cutoff and a faster rotation away from the western edges. One reason we don't want it to get too strong. 

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That sounds right to me. I think the stronger low results in tighter rotation which leads to a sharper cutoff and a faster rotation away from the western edges. One reason we don't want it to get too strong. 

The January 2000 low hit 986mb.  Anyone have handy its path?  Did it go over the OBX or stay off?  Unfortunately the post-mortem isn't clear.

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You wouldn't think anything outside a run-of-the-mill winter weather event is on the way by watching them this evening. That may turn out correct. These extreme solutions usually don't quite pan out. But based on every model I've seen, except the Euro, RDU stays frozen throughout.

 

Yeh, he does definitely know his stuff...but the big ones he's always too conservative for.  He's definitely not honking like he usually does.  The transitions are just too tight between western sections of the Triangle and eastern sections, which is why he's so reserved.  Chapel Hill could see a nice dump, and Zebulon could switch to plain rain.  Pretty nuts.

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MODEL DIAGNOSTIC DISCUSSION  

NWS WEATHER PREDICTION CENTER COLLEGE PARK MD  

1135 PM EST MON FEB 10 2014


EASTERN U.S. CYCLONE AND WINTER STORM  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  

PREFERENCE: BLEND OF 12Z UKMET / 12Z EC MEAN  

CONFIDENCE: AVERAGE  

 

THE 00Z NAM IS DIFFERENT EARLY IN THE SHORT RANGE...REGARDING A  

NRN STREAM SHORTWAVE CURRENTLY ENTERING BRITISH COLUMBIA EARLY  

THIS MORNING. THIS CONTINUES DOWNSTREAM WITH A SLOWER/NORTHWARD  

DISPLACED MID-LEVEL JET STREAK BY WED MORNING OVER THE CNTRL HIGH  

PLAINS...A FEATURE WHICH HOLDS GOOD CONTINUITY IN THE  

GFS/ECMWF/UKMET. THIS RESULTS IN A LESS AMPLIFIED UPPER TROUGH IN  

THE NAM BY EARLY THU OVER THE CNTRL APPALACHIANS.  

 

THE ENSEMBLE SCATTER LOW PLOTS ARE MORE TIGHTLY CLUSTERED THAN  

YESTERDAY...WHICH SHOULD BE EXPECTED...BUT HAVE MADE A WHOLESALE  

SHIFT SLOWER AND WEST. THE ECMWF MEMBERS ARE ON THE WEST SIDE OF  

THE LOW PLOT ENVELOPE...FOLLOWED BY THE GEFS/CMC MEMBERS JUST  

RIGHT OF THE ECMWF MEMBER CLUSTER DURING THE DAY ON THURSDAY. THIS  

PRECLUDES USE OF THE 12Z CMC WHICH IS MUCH FASTER THAN THE  

CONSENSUS. DUE TO THE ECMWF AND ITS MEAN BEING ON THE WESTERN SIDE  

OF THE AVAILABLE GUIDANCE WITH THE SURFACE LOW WHICH TRACKS UP THE  

EAST COAST... DESPITE THE WESTWARD TREND SEEN IN ALL OF THE  

MODELS...THE SAFER PLACE IS JUST A BIT EAST OF THE ECMWF. THE 00Z  

GFS POSITION LOOKS REASONABLE...BUT APPEARS TOO WEAK AND MAY HAVE  

SOME CONVECTIVE FEEDBACK WHICH DEVELOPS EARLY THURSDAY MORNING.  

THE 12Z UKMET APPEARS TO BE A DECENT COMPROMISE WHEN BLENDED WITH  

THE 12Z EC MEAN...WITH THE EC MEAN A BIT EAST OF THE OPERATIONAL  

ECMWF.

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