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Winter 2013-14 Pattern Discussion III


Marion_NC_WX

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I figured since snowfall output is freely viewable on wxunderground or whatever it's called now, this won't hurt. Here's the wxbell clown

 

 

I do know on the bottom of the wxbell model area's site.. it does show not to "distribute them" etc.. or something.  I really don't think Ryan is enforcing this rule very much seeing how much the images have been thrown all over the place this Winter.  If anything, he probably gets more subscribers out of it.\

 

JB even touched on it a bit in a few videos speaking how he likes the "freedom" and the whole "its 10:1 if it was snow" etc etc. thing.. so they're aware. but don't seem upset about it.

 

I think the biggest issue comes in when people start putting them on their paid sites/blogs without permission as if they were theirs.. or if they are modified/cut up removing the wxbell tag etc.  There's a big difference showing a few images to a bunch of weather nerds opposed to putting them on your website and charging a fee to see them.

 

As always, if people start getting DMCA takedown notices, we'll find out. :P

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WxSouth

The GFS has shifted toward a NAM look at 84 hours and goes on to produce another cold cutoff low, with damming in VA and northern NC late Sunday, into Monday and Tuesday. This should look familiar. Monday Night (aloft). It's too early to know exactly where to draw the rain , snow , ice line yet. Lots of cold rains in the Southeast, from two distinct parts of the storm. Unfortunately, more ice and snow in Virginia and probably northern NC as well, where NONE is needed again. A couple of degrees and time of day will make a huge difference at the surface. Plenty of time to watch this.
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Robert making some noise. Snow/ice for parts of nc and va.

Tw

Not directed torwards you by any means, but the last time I heard some "noise" about a major winter event, I got a cold rain! So be wary! The trends keep being more and more S, so anythings possible, but the high is not cold enough , IMO to do alot of dirty work.
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The Euro and GFS have been consistently showing 1 to 2 inches for RDU and more north. The trend lately has been in favor of snow more than not.

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The Euro and GFS have been consistently showing 1 to 2 inches for RDU and more north. The trend lately has been in favor of snow more than not.

It does look promising on paper(or digital model outputs), but it really will have to to be a perfect setup. If this hits in the middle of day it will probably stay cold rain or it will not stick(remember big bust in DC last year).

 

Here's a good look at the potential CAD. Source high looks to be heading out to sea but at this point it has already established itself in the SE (...at least for NC).

 

http://www.aos.wisc.edu/weatherdata/avn/avn_crhlia_h102.gif

 

Edit: Here is hour 114(actually looks good):

http://www.aos.wisc.edu/weatherdata/avn/avn_crhlia_h114.gif

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Based on the Euro and some other 12z runs, the low is going right over TN / NC , so that doesn't bode well for anybody wanting snow!

 

Well the GFS and Euro leave some southern stream energy behind that does bring some light wintery precip on Monday night to Tuesday morning.  Who knows if it's right, but the primary system looks to track over NC as you pointed out and would be rain for NC, but a nice MA winter storm.  Meh….bring on spring.

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RAH's afternoon discussion (still looking interesting):

 

.LONG TERM /SUNDAY NIGHT THROUGH THURSDAY/...
AS OF 255 PM THURSDAY...

FOR SUNDAY NIGHT-TUE: THE SURFACE LOW IS LIKELY TO WEAKEN OVER AL/GA
AS SECONDARY LOW CENTERS FORM JUST OFF THE GA/SRN SC COAST SUNDAY
NIGHT THROUGH MONDAY... WHILE THE 850 MB LOW SHIFTS EASTWARD PUSHING
THE BETTER MOISTURE FLUX TO OUR EAST. WHILE PRECIP RATES SHOULD BE
RAMPING DOWN DURING THIS PERIOD... THERE WILL REMAIN PLENTY OF DEEP
MOISTURE WITH PERSISTENT LIFT AS THE MID LEVEL TROUGH APPROACHES
WITH LINGERING STRONG UPPER DIVERGENCE... SO WILL MAINTAIN HIGH
CHANCE POPS SUN NIGHT/MON... WITH LOWER CHANCES LINGERING THROUGH
MON NIGHT/TUE AS THE MID LEVEL TROUGH SHIFTS OVER THE REGION.
REGARDING PTYPE... AS THE COASTAL LOWS DEVELOP AND HELP TO REINFORCE
THE NNE LOW LEVEL FLOW INTO NC... THE GFS/ECMWF SHOW THE HEART OF
THE POLAR HIGH HOLDING NORTH OF THE ST LAWRENCE SEAWAY AND
RETREATING FURTHER NORTH MONDAY... WHICH BRINGS INTO QUESTION THE
AVAILABILITY OF COLD AIR THAT WOULD SUPPORT A NON-LIQUID PTYPE. BUT
THE MODELS HAVE BEEN CONSISTENT RUN-TO-RUN AS GFS FORECAST SOUNDINGS
AS WELL AS ECMWF PARTIAL THICKNESSES SUGGEST A TRANSITION LATE SUN
NIGHT/MON TO A WINTRY MIX OF MAINLY SNOW/SLEET. THE ECMWF IS MORE
EMPHATIC WITH ITS COLUMN COOLING THAN THE GFS... TRENDING TO WINTRY
PRECIP OVER 12 HOURS SOONER... BUT THERE IS ENOUGH CONFIDENCE AND
CONSISTENCY BETWEEN THE GFS/ECMWF REGARDING THE SURFACE PATTERN...
APPROACHING TROUGH... AND EVENTUAL THERMAL STRUCTURE TO RETAIN A
MENTION OF WINTRY PRECIP LATE SUN NIGHT THROUGH MONDAY. CERTAINLY A
LOT OF QUESTIONS REMAIN IN THIS LOWER-CONFIDENCE TIME FRAME... AND
WE CAN`T IGNORE THE FACT THAT IT`S MID MARCH AND SIGNIFICANT WINTRY
PRECIP IS QUICKLY BECOMING CLIMATOLOGICALLY UNFAVORABLE. WILL KEEP
IT AS A RAIN/WINTRY MIX FOR NOW... ALTHOUGH STRICT INTERPRETATION OF
FORECAST SOUNDINGS SUPPORTS A PERIOD OF ALL-SNOW OVER PARTS OF
CENTRAL NC... EVEN HEADING INTO MONDAY NIGHT AS THE CORE OF THE MID
LEVEL TROUGH (AND THUS THE HEART OF THE MID LEVEL COLD AIR) TRACKS
OVERHEAD.

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GSP claims the mtns. will see snow out of Sunday's / monday's system. The snow map is only showing n. nc. any thoughts on this? I hope we get in on the fun and games sunday night.

Their afternoon discussion still mentions possibilities of accum snow in the NC zones, say temps marginal at best, high is pretty stout, and lots of uncertainties , the normal caveats of any wintry chance!
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Still, lots of time, but it's mid-March, hard to imagine us getting anything wintery without a better HP, still like the NC/VA border and west of 85 again.

Your right everything about this screams cold rain. I'm definitly not staying up late at night for the next model runs. (but)The only thing that could helps us is the orientation of the incoming air from the north. These kind of situation push the air due south in a back-door cold front fashion getting us in the cold air before folks to the west. If we do get the perfect match up we might get something from this. (and) It is encouraging to have RAH mention this as a real possiblilty.     

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Your right everything about this screams cold rain. I'm definitly not staying up late at night for the next model runs. (but)The only thing that could helps us is the orientation of the incoming air from the north. These kind of situation push the air due south in a back-door cold front fashion getting us in the cold air before folks to the west. If we do get the perfect match up we might get something from this. (and) It is encouraging to have RAH mention this as a real possiblilty.     

 

Well just getting around to look at the surface maps of the Euro/GFS…the Euro is light freezing rain or sleet over night Mon/Tues, so not a big deal, but the GFS is a nice winter storm, for north/central NC into central VA.   My money is on the Euro.  It all hinges on how much energy get's left behind and if that can get going, Euro/GFS both do this, so we will see if that is correct.

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HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK...UPDATED
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE RALEIGH NC
613 PM EDT THU MAR 13 2014

NCZ007>011-021>028-038>043-073>078-083>086-088-089-142215-
PERSON-GRANVILLE-VANCE-WARREN-HALIFAX-FORSYTH-GUILFORD-ALAMANCE-
ORANGE-DURHAM-FRANKLIN-NASH-EDGECOMBE-DAVIDSON-RANDOLPH-CHATHAM-WAKE-
JOHNSTON-WILSON-STANLY-MONTGOMERY-MOORE-LEE-HARNETT-WAYNE-ANSON-
RICHMOND-SCOTLAND-HOKE-CUMBERLAND-SAMPSON-
613 PM EDT THU MAR 13 2014

...FIRE WEATHER WATCH IN EFFECT FROM FRIDAY MORNING THROUGH FRIDAY
AFTERNOON...

THIS HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK IS FOR CENTRAL NORTH CAROLINA.

.DAY ONE...TONIGHT.

TEMPERATURES WILL FALL INTO THE LOWER TO MID 20S BY SUNRISE FRIDAY
MORNING. ANY NEWLY BUDDING VEGETATION COULD BE DAMAGED IF NOT
PROPERLY PROTECTED.

.DAYS TWO THROUGH SEVEN...FRIDAY THROUGH WEDNESDAY.

PLEASE LISTEN TO NOAA WEATHER RADIO OR GO TO WEATHER.GOV ON THE
INTERNET FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE FOLLOWING HAZARDS.

FIRE WEATHER WATCH.

A PERIOD OF WINTER WEATHER WILL BE POSSIBLE OVER PORTIONS OF
CENTRAL NORTH CAROLINA EARLY NEXT WEEK. RESIDENTS ARE ENCOURAGED
TO MONITOR THE FORECAST AS THE WEEK PROGRESSES. :snowing:

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Your right everything about this screams cold rain. I'm definitly not staying up late at night for the next model runs. (but)The only thing that could helps us is the orientation of the incoming air from the north. These kind of situation push the air due south in a back-door cold front fashion getting us in the cold air before folks to the west. If we do get the perfect match up we might get something from this. (and) It is encouraging to have RAH mention this as a real possiblilty.     

isn't this nearly always what it screams.  why can't it scream snow more than what it does.  where are these cold ULL when you need one? 

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isn't this nearly always what it screams.  why can't it scream snow more than what it does.  where are these cold ULL when you need one? 

Right now it's really screaming cold rain. Most models have come in warmer and RAH is definitely not as impressed as yesterday. I suppose things could trend back colder; it has a few times this year.

 

&&

.LONG TERM /SUNDAY NIGHT THROUGH THURSDAY/...

-- Changed Discussion --

AS OF 300 AM FRIDAY... FOR SUNDAY NIGHT-TUE: FORECAST DETAILS REMAIN A BIT MURKY IN THIS TIME FRAME... HOWEVER THE LATEST GFS/ECMWF/NAM HAVE COME IN WARMER THROUGH THE COLUMN THAN YESTERDAY`S RUNS AT LEAST THROUGH EARLY MON... SUPPORTIVE OF LESS OF A WINTRY WEATHER THREAT THROUGH SUN NIGHT. THE MID LEVEL TROUGH IS EXPECTED TO TRACK FROM ERN TX ACROSS THE GULF COAST/NRN GULF AND SOUTHEAST STATES THROUGH EARLY TUE. THE PRIMARY SURFACE LOW IS LIKELY TO WEAKEN OVER FAR SW NC AS SECONDARY LOW CENTERS FORM JUST OFF THE GA/SRN SC COAST SUNDAY NIGHT THROUGH MONDAY. MEANWHILE THE 850 MB LOW SHIFTS ENE TOWARD SW VA... PUSHING THE BETTER MOISTURE FLUX TO OUR EAST (ALTHOUGH THE GFS FORMS A SECOND SURFACE-850 MB OVER THE CENTRAL GULF COAST). WHILE PRECIP RATES SHOULD BE RAMPING DOWN DURING THIS PERIOD WITH PARTIAL DRYING AT AND ABOVE 700 MB... THERE WILL REMAIN PLENTY OF LOW LEVEL MOISTURE IN PLACE... WITH PERSISTENT LIFT ASSOCIATED WITH THE APPROACHING MID LEVEL TROUGH AND LINGERING STRONG UPPER DIVERGENCE. WILL MAINTAIN HIGH CHANCE POPS SUN NIGHT/MON... WITH LOWER CHANCES LINGERING THROUGH MON NIGHT/TUE AS THE MID LEVEL TROUGH CROSSES THE REGION. REGARDING PTYPE... DESPITE THE ABOVE-NOTED WARMER COLUMN HEADING INTO MONDAY... AS THE COASTAL LOWS DEVELOP AND HELP TO REINFORCE THE NNE LOW LEVEL FLOW INTO NC... THE APPROACHING MID LEVEL TROUGH WILL LEAD TO GRADUAL COOLING ALOFT. BUT THE GFS/ECMWF SHOW THE HEART OF THE POLAR HIGH HOLDING NORTH OF THE ST LAWRENCE SEAWAY AND RETREATING FURTHER NORTH MONDAY... WHICH BRINGS INTO QUESTION THE AVAILABILITY OF COLD AIR THAT WOULD SUPPORT A NON- LIQUID PTYPE. STRICT INTERPRETATION OF GFS FORECAST SOUNDINGS AND ECMWF PARTIAL THICKNESSES SUPPORTS A PERIOD OF PRECIP TAPERING DOWN AS MOSTLY SNOW OR PERHAPS SNOW/SLEET OVER NRN PARTS OF CENTRAL NC MON NIGHT AS THE TROUGH AXIS MOVES OVERHEAD. THIS MORE BRIEF WINDOW OF A POSSIBLE WINTRY MIX AS COMPARED TO YESTERDAY`S MODELS IS MORE CLIMATOLOGICALLY REASONABLE... AND IT`S STILL LIKELY THAT THIS WILL AMOUNT TO LITTLE TO NO IMPACT GIVEN THE TIME OF YEAR. LOWS MON 34-43 AND HIGHS 42-51 WITH A GOOD CHANCE OF RAIN BUT FAIRLY LOW QPF. WILL INCLUDE A CHANCE OF RAIN/SNOW MIX IN THE NORTH HALF AND JUST RAIN ELSEWHERE MON NIGHT. EXPECT DECREASING POPS EARLY TUE WEST TO EAST AS THE MID LEVEL TROUGH SHIFTS OFF THE COAST FOLLOWED BY INCOMING SHORTWAVE RIDGING... HOWEVER THE OFFSHORE LOW WILL CONTINUE TO PUMP LOW LEVEL ATLANTIC MOISTURE INTO CENTRAL NC... AND EXPECT MORE CLOUDS THAN SUN ON TUE... KEEPING HIGHS WELL BELOW NORMAL.

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Well I think this one is done for. Like mack said yesterday a surface track through N GA> NC or TN>NC is no bueno for snow. Looking at the GFS,Nam,Euro, CMC all show roughly the same type of track.

 

I think overall the models have finally converged on an idea for the track. Could change probably or probably not. But right now this is pretty well over with for anybody in NC. Central and Northern VA look to do well. 

 

But its going to be a cold rain transitioning to a even colder rain.

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The 00z GFS last night wanted to drop 6"+ rain over the next 16 days (MeteoStar KJNX). this morning's 06z cuts that down to 2.79. Either way, it looks like the sogginess is going to continue for a while. Might make it tough for farmers in the Southeast as they start to get their crops going.

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So no one is going to comment on the 12z NAM? Granted it's at 84 hours but it would paint a snowy SE with parts of GA/SC/NC. ULL takes a great path and is south of where 6z had it. Again 84 hours but even verbatim it's ice for most of NC just before the ULL moves across. 

 

Does it have any support from the other models? I thought it was just mostly rain from what I read today for NC.

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Does it have any support from the other models? I thought it was just mostly rain from what I read today for NC.

 

Well it has a little support. It's the coldest obviously and really amps up that ULL. That being said NAM pretty much led the way with the last system. This ULL looks better than the last system but I'm still skeptical. 

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