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February 4-5th Winter Storm Part 2


Chicago Storm

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Agreed, the GFS is completely lost at this point. Sad that we are literally 24 hours away from some locations getting snow in the plains and we are widening the gap even further.

Hopefully the GFS is not being given much weight in forecasts today. It would be nice for the Euro to give some credence to the higher res models that have come out so far. Definitely unfortunate and not a confidence builder for forecasters today with such large spread amongst the operational models 24 hours out.

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Hopefully the GFS is not being given much weight in forecasts today. It would be nice for the Euro to give some credence to the higher res models that have come out so far. Definitely unfortunate and not a confidence builder for forecasters today with such large spread amongst the operational models 24 hours out.

 

I think based upon the watches posted overnight, a lot of the northern offices were discounting the far south solutions. Of course the GFS had to go further south just to spice things up a bit this morning.

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I think based upon the watches posted overnight, a lot of the northern offices were discounting the far south solutions. Of course the GFS had to go further south just to spice things up a bit this morning.

Agreed. At least it's very apparent that the GFS is erroneously jumping the surface low center to the warm sector convection instead of tucked in closer to the midlevel trough hundreds of miles away over the OV as it should. This will make it easier to discount.

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Agreed. At least it's very apparent that the GFS is erroneously jumping the surface low center to the warm sector convection instead of tucked in closer to the midlevel trough hundreds of miles away over the OV as it should. This will make it easier to discount.

Even the RGEM to an extent tries to do what the GFS is doing, the difference being it starts the low much further north and in a more correct location with regards to the upper level trough.

 

http://collaboration.cmc.ec.gc.ca/cmc/cmdn/pcpn_type/pcpn_type_gem_reg.html

 

You can see it as you tick through the hours, once the convection weakens the RGEM refocuses back at the main low.

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Even the RGEM to an extent tries to do what the GFS is doing, the difference being it starts the low much further north and in a more correct location with regards to the upper level trough.

 

http://collaboration.cmc.ec.gc.ca/cmc/cmdn/pcpn_type/pcpn_type_gem_reg.html

 

You can see it as you tick through the hours, once the convection weakens the RGEM refocuses back at the main low.

Even the NAM does it.

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Even the RGEM to an extent tries to do what the GFS is doing, the difference being it starts the low much further north and in a more correct location with regards to the upper level trough.

http://collaboration.cmc.ec.gc.ca/cmc/cmdn/pcpn_type/pcpn_type_gem_reg.html

You can see it as you tick through the hours, once the convection weakens the RGEM refocuses back at the main low.

Yup, that's clear to see there, so it's conceivable that even the RGEM, while much better than the GFS, might be too far southeast at least initially with the slp placement.

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When a storm system taps pacific moisture it almost always overperforms. Check out the huge moist plume from the south/central Pacific on water vapor. That would suggest that the models with the higher QPF totals might be more representative than the others.

Yes, interesting analysis. I believe models are downplaying the qpf on the northern fringe and killing off the northern stream too quickly.

Amazing how were less than 48 hours out and yet a precise track is still not accounted for.

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Even the NAM does it.

 

 

Yup, that's clear to see there, so it's conceivable that even the RGEM, while much better than the GFS, might be too far southeast at least initially with the slp placement.

 

Certainly could lead to some last minute changes for those of us on the northern fringe of this one. Here, I consider myself playing with house money as a 3-5" snowfall looks to be a lock, if we can improve on that though, that would be great.

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Certainly could lead to some last minute changes for those of us on the northern fringe of this one. Here, I consider myself playing with house money as a 3-5" snowfall looks to be a lock, if we can improve on that though, that would be great.

I'm feeling similar here, 3-4" with potential for more if the good analysis about issues with the models placing the surface low too far southeast comes to pass, as well as the excellent point made by extremewx about the PAC moisture feed.

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LAF is locked and loaded

 

When you're hot you're hot.

 

Still thinking 1-3" for this area.  Hopefully more towards the 3" side of it, but we'll see.  At least so far we've stopped the bleeding of qpf with the 12z runs.  Hopefully Euro doesn't knock any more off.  Overall another yawner up this way, but a nice little refresher is always nice I guess.

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LAF is locked and loaded

 

For something around 6", maybe. Thing is, with these hyped up runs...it's a skinny band out in front that does damage. I'm kinda dubious to that panning out.

 

But I also think the overall QPF field for the system may need a little broadening and some upward QPF adjustment. Certainly more than the 12z GFS is portraying. 

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Speaking of dry air...Yea, no doubt it really kills things.

 

The NAM takes the 850mb low from UIN to near LAF. That would normally be good enough for a decent snow here.

 

 

yep, 850 low position is pretty decent but it's weak and doesn't improve until east of the area. The RAP continues to run a bit stronger than the NAM at 850 and 700 so I guess there is some weenie hope for a last minute improvement but the window is fast closing.

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For something around 6", maybe. Thing is, with these hyped up runs...it's a skinny band out in front that does damage. I'm kinda dubious to that panning out.

 

But I also think the overall QPF field for the system may need a little broadening and some upward QPF adjustment. Certainly more than the 12z GFS is portraying. 

 

 

Last system has a similar skinny WAA style band that overperformed for folks around PIA but they have heart break city N & S cutoffs.

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Speaking of dry air...Yea, no doubt it really kills things.

 

The NAM takes the 850mb low from UIN to near LAF. That would normally be good enough for a decent snow here.

 

enhancement will clean that up for the metro IMO...we've seen it a few times this season...

 

but yeah, definitely looks like a fly in the ointment as far as the models portrayal at the moment

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