Deck Pic Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Thanks. DO you anticipate fixing DCA's liquid so it doesnt reflect 21:1 ratios?..0.31" or so sounds like a more reasonable liquid amount US National Weather Service Baltimore/Washington 21:1 ratios are consistent with ratios observed across much of the area. This was an unusually dry, powdery snow for our area, but it is in line with what was observed across the rest of the region. Thanks! Thanks. But that isn't true at all. IAD had 15:1 ratios and BWI 12:1. A Cocorahs observer I know in Falls Church had 13:1 taking a core sample. 1st Part of the storm was lower obviously than the 2nd. But no realistic way DCA had more than 13:1 ratios and probably were 11 or 12:1. I was just mentioning it because it is an indisputably erroneous measurement and in no way consistent with other proper area observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ3 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Wish I had a "like" button Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gymengineer Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Given that they didn't fix 2/5-6/10, I can't see how this one would ever get changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Given that they didn't fix 2/5-6/10, I can't see how this one would ever get changed. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER53 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 It's near impoossible to talk to anyone, I have. Can't step on toes but they work for FAA and not "a bunch of weather weeneis" Call the FAA, they refer you to DCA, call DCA they refer you to FAA. The snow falling at 23,24 degress should mitigate UHI diffrerences as 95% of the UHI has been muted because it is covered in snow. Who else had < 4" this time or 16.5" in Snowmageddon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I thought their totals seemed in line with other reports on this one. The liquid is suspect but there are known issues there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 It's near impoossible to talk to anyone, I have. Can't step on toes but they work for FAA and not "a bunch of weather weeneis" Call the FAA, they refer you to DCA, call DCA they refer you to FAA. The snow falling at 23,24 degress should mitigate UHI diffrerences as 95% of the UHI has been muted because it is covered in snow. Who else had < 4" this time or 16.5" in Snowmageddon.UHI is powerful. We are no NYC but my dad is there staying in queens and he works downtown. He said the difference in snow is quite substantial. One DCA problem in snowmageddon is it was above freezing in the beginning there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gymengineer Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I thought their totals seemed in line with other reports on this one. The liquid is suspect but there are known issues there. 4 of us were only talking about the liquid aspect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 4 of us were only talking about the liquid aspect Well that's not an FAA observer issue then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MN Transplant Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 That's brutal. We weren't anywhere close to 20:1. I might send in a note tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wxmeddler Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Sounds like a dry snow blowing over the ASOS bucket issue... which SHOULD be fixed manually. Ian is right too, it's not a FAA observer issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gymengineer Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Well that's not an FAA observer issue then. I had assumed a mod or admin asked Matt to change the title because he thought the original one was too provocative.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow. Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 It's near impoossible to talk to anyone, I have. Can't step on toes but they work for FAA and not "a bunch of weather weeneis" Call the FAA, they refer you to DCA, call DCA they refer you to FAA. The snow falling at 23,24 degress should mitigate UHI diffrerences as 95% of the UHI has been muted because it is covered in snow. Who else had < 4" this time or 16.5" in Snowmageddon. I think the 3.8" is fine...it might be a tad low but it is supported..I got 4.5" here...we had a little trouble during the day because of the warm start and the 60 the day before....Ive seen way worse...the liquid is inexcusable and their answer is kind of insulting, though I am not sure the guy really knew much about the situation...I mean..if a 21:1 ratio gets certified I think it matters..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow. Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I had assumed a mod or admin asked Matt to change the title because he thought the original one was too provocative.... nah,..I changed it...because that is the real issue here I think...they fixed IAD, so I assume it is an FAA issue...otherwise DCA would have been fixed by Sterling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 nah,..I changed it...because that is the real issue here I think...they fixed IAD, so I assume it is an FAA issue...otherwise DCA would have been fixed by Sterling I didn't see the initial title and wasn't trying to argue or anything.. gymengineer came off a little terse considering. The title made me think "the same old issue" which is usually snow measurement which I think we all agree has been suspect on more than one occasion. In this instance it's an equipment issue that is likely somewhat widespread and problematic for maybe forever? All databases suck somewhere. The response... well, government. Do your job, stay inside the box.. and keep putting Katie's snow reports in the wrong spot on the map. I doubt there's any money to solve the blowing snow to liquid issue either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arlwx Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Even an out-of-fuel flamethrower scared some snow away in Arlington VA. Seriously, the temperature being nearly 40 degrees in the morning meant that the snow at my place didn't start sticking on cars until after 11 am. Even on my vehicle, my ruler only measured between 3.5 and just under 4 inches, so I'm calling it 3.7 inches. Shovel observations: My guess for the snow part of the event was at least 15/1 ratio. Edit: Looking back at the DCA observations, I can believe that it approached 20/1 ratios. Even the next day in shoveling, the snow was so powdery that dumping a shovel created holes in the snow cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gymengineer Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I didn't see the initial title and wasn't trying to argue or anything.. gymengineer came off a little terse considering. The title made me think "the same old issue" which is usually snow measurement which I think we all agree has been suspect on more than one occasion. In this instance it's an equipment issue that is likely somewhat widespread and problematic for maybe forever? All databases suck somewhere. The response... well, government. Do your job, stay inside the box.. and keep putting Katie's snow reports in the wrong spot on the map. I doubt there's any money to solve the blowing snow to liquid issue either. Sorry- I wasn't annoyed and didn't mean to come off as terse. I should have added a winky face or something I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidlothianWX Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 It's a never-ending battle Matt. Which is unfortunate because most on here truly value accurate climo records, while the FAA contractors more than likely do not. Anthony and myself took to AKQ's FB page after the storm to complain. RIC had reported 0.6" of snow at 9pm when all of the CO-OP stations in the area were at 2+. We did get a reply from Wakefield though which I appreciated. US National Weather Service Wakefield VA See latest climate, we told them the issues you mention and they walked out and took several measurements and came up with 2.0" The Airport location is very windy and we have this issue often, it is unfortunate but we need to use something "official" and can't simply enter what spotters report. When the measurement is unrepresentative, we use the Sandston co-op station as this is within 5 miles of the Airport and can be considered official. So, long story short, they are listening. I think the wind excuse is sort of B.S. though. Jamie's joke is that they measure under the parking deck (DT claims to have seen them measuring under a tree but who knows with him). Hopefully both DCA and RIC can get their issues resolved in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER53 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The FAA does not care if DCA has already received 2.5" of snow with light snow currently falling or 3.7" of snow with light snow falling. They are aviation, not weather. That is the core issue that should be reviewed and adjusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Pimpernel Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Given that they didn't fix 2/5-6/10, I can't see how this one would ever get changed. This Yep...exactly! Arguments about their snowfall reports from that event (or others) aside, they reported something on the order of 1.50" liquid equivalent. I cannot believe that anyone in the area got under 2.00"; area-wide probably everyone got more like 2.50" (or more). It was a very wet storm and high QPF event. While snow reports might be highly variable, both IAD and BWI got over 2.50" (I think IAD got over 3.00"?). It seems odd that DCA would have an inch or more liquid less than that. I seem to recall they actually did revise their Dec. 18-19, 2009 liquid amount to better reflect the 16.4" snow that fell. Initially, they had just over half an inch liquid!!! They used some kind of interpolation of nearby reports and adjusted it to a more realistic number, as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MN Transplant Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Thanks. DO you anticipate fixing DCA's liquid so it doesnt reflect 21:1 ratios?..0.31" or so sounds like a more reasonable liquid amount US National Weather Service Baltimore/Washington 21:1 ratios are consistent with ratios observed across much of the area. This was an unusually dry, powdery snow for our area, but it is in line with what was observed across the rest of the region. Thanks! Thanks. But that isn't true at all. IAD had 15:1 ratios and BWI 12:1. A Cocorahs observer I know in Falls Church had 13:1 taking a core sample. 1st Part of the storm was lower obviously than the 2nd. But no realistic way DCA had more than 13:1 ratios and probably were 11 or 12:1. I was just mentioning it because it is an indisputably erroneous measurement and in no way consistent with other proper area observations. Matt, I just sent the climate and hydrology guys an email. We'll see if it goes anywhere. I argued for a bump closer to 0.30", with a suggestion that 0.26" to 0.28" is easily supportable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deck Pic Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Matt, I just sent the climate and hydrology guys an email. We'll see if it goes anywhere. I argued for a bump closer to 0.30", with a suggestion that 0.26" to 0.28" is easily supportable. CoCoRahs map from 1-21-14 snowstorm.jpg nice..good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodneyS Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Thanks. DO you anticipate fixing DCA's liquid so it doesnt reflect 21:1 ratios?..0.31" or so sounds like a more reasonable liquid amount How about a 50:1 or even a 100:1 snow/precipitation ratio? The DCA preliminary monthly climate data report for January 28th shows 0.5 inches of snow, but only a trace of precipitation. Assuming that the amount of precipitation recorded was just below 0.01 inches (such as 0.00999), that would be a 50:1 ratio. But I'm unclear as to whether precipitation amounts below 0.01 inches are rounded up if they are 0.005 inches or above. (Does anyone know?) If that is the case, then the maximum amount of precipitation consistent with the reported trace amount would be just under 0.005 inches, which would translate to a snow/precipitation ratio of 100:1. I note that the snow that fell on January 28th was late at night and continued into the early hours of January 29th. For January 29th, the DCA preliminary monthly climate data report shows 0.4 inches of snow and 0.03 inches of precipitation, which translates to a ratio of 13:1. For the combined two-day event, the amounts recorded were 0.9 inches of snow and 0.03 inches of precipitation, for a ratio of 30:1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MN Transplant Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 How about a 50:1 or even a 100:1 snow/precipitation ratio? The DCA preliminary monthly climate data report for January 28th shows 0.5 inches of snow, but only a trace of precipitation. Assuming that the amount of precipitation recorded was just below 0.01 inches (such as 0.00999), that would be a 50:1 ratio. But I'm unclear as to whether precipitation amounts below 0.01 inches are rounded up if they are 0.005 inches or above. (Does anyone know?) If that is the case, then the maximum amount of precipitation consistent with the reported trace amount would be just under 0.005 inches, which would translate to a snow/precipitation ratio of 100:1. I note that the snow that fell on January 28th was late at night and continued into the early hours of January 29th. For January 29th, the DCA preliminary monthly climate data report shows 0.4 inches of snow and 0.03 inches of precipitation, which translates to a ratio of 13:1. For the combined two-day event, the amounts recorded were 0.9 inches of snow and 0.03 inches of precipitation, for a ratio of 30:1. Yeah, they really need to reassign either 0.01" or more likely 0.02" to the 28th. But, since I didn't even get a reply to my message, I doubt they will do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MN Transplant Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Evidently the co-op observers also reported high ratios. Really doubt they will change anything now. From a reply to my message: "nearby NWS cooperative observation sites at Oxon Hill, MD and Vienna, VA reported 20:1 and 18:1, respectively, in that event." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deck Pic Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Evidently the co-op observers also reported high ratios. Really doubt they will change anything now. From a reply to my message: "nearby NWS cooperative observation sites at Oxon Hill, MD and Vienna, VA reported 20:1 and 18:1, respectively, in that event." lol...they just dont care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEATHER53 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Temperatures, snowfall and liq. equiv.-DCA writes it own rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mempho Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Temperatures, snowfall and liq. equiv.-DCA writes it own rules.This is pretty much every major airport in the country. KMEM is also laughable. They run maybe 60% of the WFO totals, which is about 5 miles away. I should use the caveat that we don't get snow any longer in Memphis since it's been 3 years now.... but I remember this from back in the day. Sent from my SCH-L710 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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