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1/28-2/1: Multiple winter storm threats per models


GaWx

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 The 0Z Sat Euro hardly even has any precip. in SAV. I checked Fri's 0Z Euro members and did find 12 of the 51 to be similarly dry through 0Z on 1/30. (I haven't seen Fri's 12Z). In other words, if we think of the op. run as just one of the 51, there was theoretically about a 12/51 chance, not a tiny %, for the next run to be dry. So, there is always the chance that the new run's op. was just taking its random turn to be dry and that the ens. means will still be wet.  If instead, the # of dry members were, say, like only 1 or 2, the hope for a wetter next run would be a lot lower.

 

 I also checked COLA and 22 hardly had any qpf through 0Z on 1/30 per the Fri 0Z run.

 

Edit: SAV had no 14 of the 51 on the FRI 0Z run with little or no snow. 12 had no snow! That's pretty sizable. 16 for COLA had none.

 

 I'll be adding the same analysis for the Fri 12Z soon.

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Could this possibly be similar to previous winters when the models would "lose" the storm only for it to reappear a couple of runs later, or is it more likely that the models are coming to the correct solution?  I'm definitely waiting the entire weekend, since everything hasn't been sampled in raobs I don't believe.

 

...oh and great job guys!  It's great staying in the shadows around here, 99% of my questions are asked by others...keep it up!

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KILM says....

 

the main story for the extended continues to
be the continuation of the deep and anomalous East Coast trough.
This could lead to cyclogenesis off the southeast coast and with
implications for the County Warning Area most notably the coastal areas.

Medium range guidance is certainly in agreement on the troughing
with the GFS operational showing a slightly deeper southern stream
system phasing with a deep shortwave rotating around the mean trough
around midweek. The European model (ecmwf) shows more of a dominant northern stream
system. It appears the best strategy at this time is to follow wpc
graphics and slowly increase probability of precipitation for Tuesday and Wednesday. Until
both of the aforementioned features enter the denser upper air
network of the lower 48...models will most likely show little run to
run consistency. Most of the quantitative precipitation forecast will likely be snow and at least at
this early juncture...ptype issues will not be the question...it
will be an issue of moisture and the advection thereof. Beyond this
the beat GOES on...cold and dry. Monday shows a slight and brief
warmup ahead of the next Arctic front.

 

 

NO cliff diving yet folks...
 

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 The 0Z Sat Euro hardly even has any precip. in SAV. I checked Fri's 0Z Euro members and did find 12 of the 51 to be similarly dry through 0Z on 1/30. (I haven't seen Fri's 12Z). In other words, if we think of the op. run as just one of the 51, there was theoretically about a 12/51 chance, not a tiny %, for the next run to be dry. So, there is always the chance that the new run's op. was just taking its random turn to be dry and that the ens. means will still be wet.  If instead, the # of dry members were, say, like only 1 or 2, the hope for a wetter next run would be a lot lower.

 

 I also checked COLA and 22 hardly had any qpf through 0Z on 1/30 per the Fri 0Z run.

 

Edit: SAV had no 14 of the 51 on the FRI 0Z run with little or no snow. 12 had no snow! That's pretty sizable. 16 for COLA had none.

 

 I'll be adding the same analysis for the Fri 12Z soon.

 

The 12Z Fri is similar. So, I'm holding onto the idea that the new Euro op. could easily just be a dry hiccup like about a dozen of the 51 ensemble members. I'll check the new ens. mean very soon.

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The 12Z Fri is similar. So, I'm holding onto the idea that the new Euro op. could easily just be a dry hiccup like about a dozen of the 51 ensemble members. I'll check the new ens. mean very soon.

 

Folks,

 Hot off of the press. The just released 0Z Euro ens. mean is drier than the prior version for most but not dramatically so! More details to follow. That means that the new Euro op. is one of the dry outliers of the 51 members and the op. will very likely be wetter on the next run.

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More details: coastline was 0.50" on prior ens. run. Now is still at healthy 0.45". COLA was ~0.27 and now is still 0.22". Even way over at ATL, it was 0.11" and now I still 0.09". These are not dramatic drops and are all much wetter than the bone dry op.

 

EDIT:  Snowfall: RDU/COLA/SAV/CHS were 3/3/3.5/4.5 but are still 2/2/3/3.5!

 

Edit: snow increased from very little to over 1" far S Miss and S LA

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It's a long way to go, Larry, and the models haven't been unusually consistant, lol.  Except for on the cold.  They've said I'd get cold, and I'm definately cold :)  Pretty impressive when low 20's are the norm, and I was 13 last night with cloud cover, and 11 so far tonight.  Man, oh, man, what a great winter so far.  T

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It's a long way to go, Larry, and the models haven't been unusually consistant, lol.  Except for on the cold.  They've said I'd get cold, and I'm definately cold :)  Pretty impressive when low 20's are the norm, and I was 13 last night with cloud cover, and 11 so far tonight.  Man, oh, man, what a great winter so far.  T

 

  T, It is freezing!

 

  Looking more closely, the new ens. is slightly drier only because it ends the precip. earlier. For the first part of the storm, amounts are very similar and are actually heavier in S MS/LA! I'd bet heavily that the 12Z Euro will be sig. wetter.

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 People have been psyched out by the two dry 0Z op. runs. Why do I say this?

 

1. The 0Z GEFS is much wetter than its op and it is wetter than the prior three runs! I did see someone say it was drier. That's not true. It is wetter.

 

2. The 0Z CMC ens. mean is much wetter than its prior run and is very wet! The coast has 1.25", COLA has 1", and ATL even has 0.40"!

 

3. The 0Z Euro ens. mean is much wetter than its op. and only slightly drier than its prior run due to ending the precip earlier. It is wetter in S MS/LA.

 

 So, I give it a 75% chance that both the 12Z Euro and 12Z GFS will be sig. wetter than the 0Z. 0Z GFS and Euro were major outliers.

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People have been psyched out by the two dry 0Z op. runs. Why do I say this?

 

1. The 0Z GEFS is much wetter than its op and it is wetter than the prior three runs! I did see someone say it was drier. That's not true. It is wetter.

 

2. The 0Z CMC ens. mean is much wetter than its prior run and is very wet! The coast has 1.25", COLA has 1", and ATL even has 0.40"!

 

3. The 0Z Euro ens. mean is much wetter than its op. and only slightly drier than its prior run due to ending the precip earlier. It is wetter in S MS/LA.

 

 So, I give it a 75% chance that both the 12Z Euro and 12Z GFS will be sig. wetter than the 0Z. 0Z GFS and Euro were major outliers.

Agreed, it seems all models are actually struggling greatly still. 500mb is changing widely every run, ensembles still the way to go...... the NAM looks amazing but it had a different look altogether out west with the southern stream s/w. I think anyone in the southeast still has a shot with this one. Obviously coastal areas are favored.
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After the 00Z runs from last night, I was actually surprised to see some of this. The next 3-4 model runs will tell the tale  I think. We have to get close enough in time to get a good upper air sample that the models can use. But we are now in the range of the short range models so I would begin to pay a little extra attention to them.

Here's the SREF from the SPC: http://www.daculaweather.com/4_spc_sref_analysis.php

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Just doing some quick comparing of the GFS and NAM at 84h, one thing stands out. The placement of the trough. As I mentioned in my post last night, I am more interested in that than anything. The Nam has the high pressure center much farther northwest and stronger than the GFS. It is preventing that energy from hanging out in the southwest. That's the look we would want to see for the precip shield to affect more of the southeast. The trade-off is that it would be a warmer system and ratios would be more on the order of 10/1.

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