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Upstate NY/North Country + adjacent ON, QC, VT: Middle of Winter


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the thruway is the line. wow. Im not sure ive ever seen a storm this strong rolling through northern pa. I hope dynamics help us big time. rochester still does well but barely. toronto gets killed.

Thankfully we are north of the Thruway! ;) I agree, Thruway south mixes on front end.

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NAM is actually great in the 48 hr range. at least it used to be. euro will start to be useless in my opinion. but i might eat those words.

 

I find the NAM to be generally very unreliable, especially with cyclogenesis outside of 24 hours. The Euro has been the most consistent over the last few days with this system, though there is always a chance it will join the other guidance farther north.

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If the NAM is off on this storm by as much as it was on the last storm that came at us from this direction we'll all be waking up to 1-2 feet of new snow on Thursday morning.

I still haven't given up on this thing for Ithaca, though the wrap around snows of a few inches and flash freeze the NAM shows are decent consolation prizes. 

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Shift that precip axis 50 miles south and we're all in business...

I'm more confident now that SYR northward SHOULD avoid major mixing....the settling of the 0C line a bit from the 18z, even with a stronger system, suggests that verification of the slp should be south of what NAM is depicting.  Let's keep the GooFuS where it has been and nudge the Euro a tiny bit northward. 

 

Odd track for such a strong, juicy system!

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I find the NAM to be generally very unreliable, especially with cyclogenesis outside of 24 hours. The Euro has been the most consistent over the last few days with this system, though there is always a chance it will join the other guidance farther north.

Safe to say mass weenie pandemonium around the I-90 corridor if Euro comes in tonight anywhere near the latest NAM and GFS runs....

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I'm more confident now that SYR northward SHOULD avoid major mixing....the settling of the 0C line a bit from the 18z, even with a stronger system, suggests that verification of the slp should be south of what NAM is depicting.  Let's keep the GooFuS where it has been and nudge the Euro a tiny bit northward. 

 

Odd track for such a strong, juicy system!

 

Chicago has a 3 hour period of snow with 9-10 inches. Thundersnow a possibility? Also NAM gives YYZ 30+ inches, lock it in. ^_^

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Euro had this going across Southern PA at 12Z while NAM has it just south of the Southern Tier...I doubt the Euro caves to the NAM tonight.  NAM is a bit south and colder vs 18z...I would expect it to continue to tic south a bit as it starts to get a clue.  For most of you west of here its simply a matter of how much snow.  I would like to get a better idea of how much rain vs snow to expect in these parts up here.

Safe to say mass weenie pandemonium around the I-90 corridor if Euro comes in tonight anywhere near the latest NAM and GFS runs....

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I'm more confident now that SYR northward SHOULD avoid major mixing....the settling of the 0C line a bit from the 18z, even with a stronger system, suggests that verification of the slp should be south of what NAM is depicting.  Let's keep the GooFuS where it has been and nudge the Euro a tiny bit northward. 

 

Odd track for such a strong, juicy system!

Euro 24 hr steps hurt analysis...but it has shown the slp down over west KY and then ENE to near NYC and SNE for several runs. NAM has slp up in central Indiana and pushes it almost due east.

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Euro 24 hr steps hurt analysis...but it has shown the slp down over west KY and then ENE to near NYC and SNE for several runs. NAM has slp up in central Indiana and pushes it almost due east.

You do know about the Wunderground 3hr. Euro...don't you??  Navigate through the menu on the right, deselect the default obs and radar, and look for model data, select Euro and the parameters you want...all free!

 

http://www.wunderground.com/wundermap/

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You do know about the Wunderground 3hr. Euro...don't you?? Navigate through the menu on the right, deselect the default obs and radar, and look for model data, select Euro and the parameters you want...all free!

http://www.wunderground.com/wundermap/

I did not know! I must have missed this development when I was less active. Thanks!

And per weather underground map...its 36 IMBY and 49 in SYR? Wow.

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The 00z NAM handles the anticyclonic wave break over the Pacific NW differently than the 12z Euro. It has with a more energetic shortwave separating from the breaking wave allowing for a quicker neutral/negative tilt and thus an earlier phase with the northern stream vorticity max. As a result, it brings the surface low down to 996 mb over southern IL vs. only 1000 mb on the Euro.

 

The exact interaction and development of these features is still difficult to predict but a stronger surface low means stronger warm advection downstream and a more northerly track.

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The 00z NAM handles the anticyclonic wave break over the Pacific NW differently than the 12z Euro. It has with a more energetic shortwave separating from the breaking wave allowing for a quicker neutral/negative tilt and thus an earlier phase with the northern stream vorticity max. As a result, it brings the surface low down to 996 mb over southern IL vs. only 1000 mb on the Euro.

 

The exact interaction and development of these features is still difficult to predict but a stronger surface low means stronger warm advection downstream and a more northerly track.

 

Yep Miller As have much stronger bust potential than Miller Bs.

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that shows the biggest totals of 30 cm in orleans and wayne county (due to lake effect help). which is like 13". Toronto shows about 10". those silly metric people! they still confuse me too!

 

That map is in tenths of an inch so 300 = 30".

 

The 00z GFS looks more amplified with the shortwave and farther north vs. the 18z run.

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that shows the biggest totals of 30 cm in orleans and wayne county (due to lake effect help). which is like 13". Toronto shows about 10". those silly metric people! they still confuse me too!

that map is in inches x 10 at a 10:1 ratio...not mm or cm.

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