Jump to content
  • Member Statistics

    17,599
    Total Members
    7,904
    Most Online
    ArlyDude
    Newest Member
    ArlyDude
    Joined

Upstate NY/North Country + adjacent ON, QC, VT: Middle of Winter


Recommended Posts

 

 

ALL EYES ARE ON THE APPROACHING WINTER STORM TO OUR SOUTH THIS

AFTERNOON. THIS SYSTEM WILL BRING SIGNIFICANT ACCUMULATING SNOW TO

WESTERN AND CENTRAL NEW YORK LATER TONIGHT THROUGH WEDNESDAY...A

WINTER STORM WARNING REMAINS IN EFFECT TO COVER FOR THE HEAVY SNOW

ON ITS WAY. THE NATIONAL RADAR AND SATELLITE PRESENTATION ALONG WITH

SURFACE OBS THIS AFTERNOON SHOW A WELL DEFINED STORM STRUCTURE. A

WIDE SWATH OF WARM ADVECTION SNOW IS FALLING IN THE COLD AIR TO THE

NORTH OF THE STORM CENTER FROM KANSAS EAST TO OHIO AND A BAND OF

RAIN TO THE EAST AND SOUTH OF THE CENTER EXTENDING SOUTH ALONG THE

MISSISSIPPI RIVER VALLEY. MOISTURE WILL CONTINUE TO STREAM NORTH

THROUGH THIS EVENING AHEAD OF THE STORM WITH MID AND HIGH LEVEL

CLOUDS THICKENING AND LOWERING. WHILE WARM ADVECTIVE SNOW WILL

STREAM OVERHEAD BY EARLY THIS EVENING A THICK LAYER OF DRY AIR NEAR

THE SURFACE WILL ALLOW THIS TO EVAPORATE BEFORE HITTING THE GROUND.

THROUGH TONIGHT THE CENTER OF THE STORM WILL TRACK FROM THE

MISSISSIPPI RIVER VALLEY NORTH TO THE OHIO RIVER VALLEY. DEEP-LAYER

SOUTHERLY FLOW AHEAD OF THE STORM CENTER WILL CONTINUE TO PUMP GULF

MOISTURE NORTHWARD WHERE WE CAN EXPECT TO BEGIN TO SEE SNOW REACHING

THE GROUND FIRST ACROSS THE SOUTHERN TIER 7-10PM THEN ARRIVING ACROSS

THE REST OF WESTERN NEW YORK BY 11PM-2AM. BEST TIMING FOR NORTH

CENTRAL NEW YORK WILL BE 2AM-5AM. BUFKIT VERTICAL PROFILES SHOW

INITIALLY THE PRIME SNOW GROWTH REGION WILL BE CENTERED AROUND 15KT

WITH A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF LIFT AND MOISTURE RESIDING BELOW THIS

LEVEL. SNOW RATIOS FROM THE COBB METHOD BASED ON THESE PROFILES SKEW

SNOW CRYSTAL TYPE TO A DENSER/WETTER AND RIMED NATURE SO HAVE

AVERAGED A 9:1 RATIO FOR SNOW TOTALS OVERNIGHT. THIS YIELDS ONLY

ABOUT 2 TO 4 INCHES OF SNOW THROUGH DAYBREAK. CLOUD COVER AND WARM

ADVECTION WILL KEEP TEMPERATURES OVERNIGHT NEARLY STEADY IN THE

MID 20S.

ON WEDNESDAY THE STORM CENTER WILL TRANSFER FROM OHIO EAST ACROSS

PENNSYLVANIA TO THE NEW JERSEY COAST UNDER A MILLER TYPE-B SCENARIO.

THE TRACK OF THE 850MB LOW WILL REMAIN SOUTH AND EAST OF WESTERN AND

CENTRAL NEW YORK SO EXPECT THAT WE REMAIN IN THE COLD AIR WITH ALL

SNOW AND NO MIXED P-TYPE EXPECTED. ONCE THE STORM CENTER BEGINS

SHIFTING EAST OF OUR REGION WE WILL BEGIN TO SEE SNOW INTENSITY AND

SNOW RATIOS INCREASE UNDER COLD AIR ADVECTION. MESOSCALE MODELS EVEN

SUGGEST SOME MESOSCALE BANDING POSSIBLE TO THE SOUTH OF A

BUF-ROC-SYR LINE WHERE WRAP AROUND MOISTURE MEETS A NORTHEAST TO

SOUTHWEST ORIENTED JET ALONG A 925MB THERMAL GRADIENT. THIS IS

WHERE THE HIGHEST QPF AND LIFT WILL BE FOUND. HAVE FACTORED IN THESE

MESOSCALE MODELS WHEN DERIVING THE FORECAST QPF. THE FLOW OFF LAKE

ONTARIO WILL ALSO ADD A LAKE ENHANCEMENT COMPONENT ESPECIALLY

UPSLOPING IN THE HIGHER TERRAIN SOUTH OF THE THRUWAY. THE COLD

ADVECTION ALSO LOWERS THE SNOW GROWTH REGION DOWN BELOW 10KFT BY THE

AFTERNOON. INCREASED SNOW RATIOS TO 12:1 THROUGH THE MORNING THEN

15:1 THROUGH THE AFTERNOON. EXPECTING 5 TO 8 INCHES WITH LOCALLY

HIGHER AMOUNTS WHERE MESOSCALE BANDING SETS UP DURING THE DAYLIGHT

HOURS TOMORROW. TEMPERATURES WILL LINGER IN THE LOW TO MID 20S

THROUGH THE MORNING THEN FALL TOWARD THE TEENS BY THE LATE AFTERNOON

UNDER THEN COLD NORTHERLY FLOW.

-- End Changed Discussion --

&&

.SHORT TERM /WEDNESDAY NIGHT THROUGH FRIDAY/...

-- Changed Discussion --
STEADY LAKE ENHANCED SNOW WILL LAST THROUGH WEDNESDAY EVENING...WITH

THIS FURTHER ENHANCED BY A NORTHERLY UPSLOPE FLOW SOUTH OF LAKE

ONTARIO. BY WEDNESDAY EVENING THE SURFACE LOW WILL BE IN THE GULF OF

MAINE...WITH THE ASSOCIATED 500 MB TROF AXIS ACROSS EASTERN NEW

YORK. ONCE THIS TROF AXIS MOVES FURTHER EAST...SNOW WILL DIMINISH

CONSIDERABLY WITH DRIER AIR AND ONLY MARGINAL LAKE INDUCED

INSTABILITY. THIS SHOULD BRING ADDITIONAL 1 TO 3 INCHES SOUTH OF

LAKE ONTARIO ON WEDNESDAY NIGHT. WHAT IS LEFT OF THE LAKE EFFECT

BAND WILL SHIFT SOUTHEAST OF LAKE ONTARIO LATE WEDNESDAY NIGHT.

OTHERWISE THERE WILL JUST BE SCATTERED SNOW SHOWERS WITH LIGHT

ACCUMULATIONS. TEMPERATURES WILL DROP INTO THE TEENS AND SINGLE

DIGITS...DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH SKIES CLEAR. IN GENERAL...AREAS

OUTSIDE OF THE LAKE EFFECT SNOW AND CLOUDS WILL BE COLDER.

:thumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 1.4k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Not to be a Debbie, but interested to see if my totally unscientific "50% rule" works with this event.  For these types of synoptic systems approaching from the southwest, I take the snowfall forecast from the day before and cut it in half.  So my guess for BUF on this storm would be in the 4-6" range.  Be gentle...I'm not saying models show this and I understand why the forecast is what it is at this point.  I'm just wary of the dry slot, poor snow growth, early transfer, etc. that seem to accompany these storms and cut back on snow totals in WNY.   

Agree. Miller B's are tough to get excited about. Way too many things can, and usually do, go wrong. LIkely not for everybody in ENY/CNY/WNY at the same time but almost assuredly for some.  Who knows where the fickle finger of fate will point this time? ;) 

(Disclaimer: this system does look pretty decent though, providing deformation snows end up where currently shown. Even a "bust" looks likely to  be able to scrape into WSW level snowfall).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well...FWIW 00Z NAM is running...seems to have axis of heaviest qpf down towards BGM to ALB and into central New England...which was the original idea a day or so ago until the wobbles north today. QPF seems reasonable, don't have text products yet but eyeballing....BGM to ALB 1-1.25 and BUF/SYR/ROC somewhere between 0.75-1.00. No big change...it will all depend on where banding sets up. Cortland/Ithica would seem to be in a great spot for this one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well...FWIW 00Z NAM is running...seems to have axis of heaviest qpf down towards BGM to ALB and into central New England...which was the original idea a day or so ago until the wobbles north today. QPF seems reasonable, don't have text products yet but eyeballing....BGM to ALB 1-1.25 and BUF/SYR/ROC somewhere between 0.75-1.00. No big change...it will all depend on where banding sets up. Cortland/Ithica would seem to be in a great spot for this one.

These coastal transfers are notoriously difficult to prog max. qpf stripe....really can shift 50-75 miles either direction....Ball parking right now on about 8" for our area Bri....10" for SYR proper...12-14" for Cortland to BGM....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These coastal transfers are notoriously difficult to prog max. qpf stripe....really can shift 50-75 miles either direction....Ball parking right now on about 8" for our area Bri....10" for SYR proper...12-14" for Cortland to BGM....

Agree w/ that George. BGM's 8-10" for us looks about right. Even if we end up w/ 0.5-0.6" liquid we should squeak out Warning snow...which has been rare this winter. A lot of light to moderate accums thusfar.

Sun/Mon starting to look like a swing and a miss up here also.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It sure will look pretty! Still waiting for the 2-3 foot bomb. These tracks have underperformed more that over. Get caught up in the qpf. Always need the "what can go wrong" factor. Still could have some banding somewhere in CNY with decent rates(above 1"). Estimating 7 to 9 for Phoenix which fits most forecasts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agree w/ that George. BGM's 8-10" for us looks about right. Even if we end up w/ 0.5-0.6" liquid we should squeak out Warning snow...which has been rare this winter. A lot of light to moderate accums thusfar.

Sun/Mon starting to look like a swing and a miss up here also.

I bet the operational models will come back some for the late weekend storm....at least to keep us "interested"..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It sure will look pretty! Still waiting for the 2-3 foot bomb. These tracks have underperformed more that over. Get caught up in the qpf. Always need the "what can go wrong" factor. Still could have some banding somewhere in CNY with decent rates(above 1"). Estimating 7 to 9 for Phoenix which fits most forecasts.

The real question is will Phoenix schools close? Kids are hopeful...;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This was my forecast contest entry:

CAR: 0.5

BGR: 6.3

PWM: 9.5

CON: 12.5

BTV: 9.5

BOS: 5.5

HYA: 1.0

ORH: 7.5

PVD: 4.0

BDR: 2.5

BDL: 5.5

ALB: 13.5

BGM: 11

ISP: 1.5

JFK: 2.0

ABE: 3

MDT: 1.5

PHL: 0.5

ACY: 0.05

EWR: 3.0

BWI: 0.05

IAD: 0

DCA: 0

SBY: 0

RIC: 0

ORF: 0

RDU: 0

Not in contest, but if it were:

BUF: 7.5

SYR: 8.5

ROC: 8.0

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The models have been very frustrating all day for areas thruway north ie: all the big cities. They went north and then south and now they are split! Most showing the heavy stuff south of a 5 and 20 line. One hi res model (her i think) only gives Monroe county 3-4" with arr giving us 12". God damn glad I'm not a meteorologist in buf-syr tonite. One comforting thought is this, most show somewhere in wny getting 12+. My experience has been that u just can't tell where the highest total bands set up or what lake enhancement does. Miller b's are tricky. If this was a cutter I'd feel very comfortable adding several inches to projections south of the lake. But I've seen miller b's transfer quick and steal moisture. Basically, my gut says 6-8 for the thruway corridor.

Btw: please keep me company with posts, I'm in this for the long haul.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The models have been very frustrating all day for areas thruway north ie: all the big cities. They went north and then south and now they are split! Most showing the heavy stuff south of a 5 and 20 line. One hi res model (her i think) only gives Monroe county 3-4" with arr giving us 12". God damn glad I'm not a meteorologist in buf-syr tonite. One comforting thought is this, most show somewhere in wny getting 12+. My experience has been that u just can't tell where the highest total bands set up or what lake enhancement does. Miller b's are tricky. If this was a cutter I'd feel very comfortable adding several inches to projections south of the lake. But I've seen miller b's transfer quick and steal moisture. Basically, my gut says 6-8 for the thruway corridor.

Btw: please keep me company with posts, I'm in this for the long haul.

 

I'll try but going to sleep a little earlier tonight. Light snow started here around 10:30. Hopefully it doesn't stop until 6 pm tomorrow. ^_^

Link to comment
Share on other sites

00Z GFS not all that impressive. Given NAM bias towards too much qpf, I think 6-8" looking good for BUF/ROC/SYR. ALB and BGM maybe get 8-12, depending on where any heavier bands set up, which I think will be somewhere in the vicinity of Rt 17 / I-86 to the I-90 or I-88 corridors. At least we won't be dealing with p-type issues as they will along the coast. I'd be surprised if I-95 south of Boston sees more than 3-4".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

00Z GFS not all that impressive. Given NAM bias towards too much qpf, I think 6-8" looking good for BUF/ROC/SYR. ALB and BGM maybe get 8-12, depending on where any heavier bands set up, which I think will be somewhere in the vicinity of Rt 17 / I-86 to the I-90 or I-88 corridors. At least we won't be dealing with p-type issues as they will along the coast. I'd be surprised if I-95 south of Boston sees more than 3-4".

 

It's pretty much the same as earlier runs, from what I saw.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

00Z GFS not all that impressive. Given NAM bias towards too much qpf, I think 6-8" looking good for BUF/ROC/SYR. ALB and BGM maybe get 8-12, depending on where any heavier bands set up, which I think will be somewhere in the vicinity of Rt 17 / I-86 to the I-90 or I-88 corridors. At least we won't be dealing with p-type issues as they will along the coast. I'd be surprised if I-95 south of Boston sees more than 3-4".

The GFS has been the driest model of the suite the whole time.  What about the 12z euro from today, though?  Areas south of Boston will do fine...much of SNE aside from the immediate south coast will get 6"+.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The latest RAP is quite impressive for the region. 1 foot + in the southern tier and lower finger lakes and 8-12 for everyone else with the exception of the Niagara frontier, which gets 6-8.

 

The HRRR has 8-12 for the southern tier and finger lakes through noon tomorrow and 4-8 for the rest of the area with plenty left to fall.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The GFS has been the driest model of the suite the whole time. What about the 12z euro from today, though? Areas south of Boston will do fine...much of SNE aside from the immediate south coast will get 6"+.

Interior SNE probably does ok (BDL to ORH to CON to PWM)...likely similar amounts as up here, could get lucky with any banding. I-95 corridor mixes after 2-4". Hardest call is how far north the warm layer intrudes. Climo down there often sees it blasting up the Ct river valley to as far as BDL. Boston another iffy spot...Logan is right on the water and often records lower than most of the metro area. Euro was wetter...seems like GFS is channeling the old NGM model for this system, as far as qpf. ;)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...