1/21 Clipper that's not a Clipper Thread

[84 Hour NAM]

DT has gone on a rant about how he is the greatest forecaster in the history of the world on facebook.

[usedtobe]

Euro kills the gfs with southern stream. I will only get excited for those if the euro is on board. Euro does not do well with ns vorts that have rapid development potential or when energy digs into the sw at long leads.

Euro made its predicted step last night. Guidance is overwhelming again so another gradual step is coming up shortly.

That certainly was correct with the last clipper the morphed bigger.   I've written an not so good article today.

[NorthArlington101]

First call from someone down in the Southeastern forum, seems reasonable. 

[Sparky]

I wouldn't pay attention to the snow amount Cobb puts, only the qpf amount. Then go from there.

 

NAM gave westminster .505 qpf, even at 15:1 that's 7.5" of snow

yeah, should be interesting either way...looking forward to snow/wind combo more than anything.

[WxUSAF]

Warnings up!

[WxUSAF]

URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BALTIMORE MD/WASHINGTON DC

1220 PM EST MON JAN 20 2014

VAZ036>040-050-051-056-210130-

/O.UPG.KLWX.WS.A.0001.140121T0900Z-140122T0400Z/

/O.NEW.KLWX.WS.W.0002.140121T1200Z-140122T0400Z/

NELSON-ALBEMARLE-GREENE-MADISON-RAPPAHANNOCK-ORANGE-CULPEPER-

SPOTSYLVANIA-

INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...CHARLOTTESVILLE...WASHINGTON...

CULPEPER...FREDERICKSBURG

1220 PM EST MON JAN 20 2014

...WINTER STORM WARNING IN EFFECT FROM 7 AM TO 11 PM EST

TUESDAY...

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN BALTIMORE MD/WASHINGTON HAS

ISSUED A WINTER STORM WARNING FOR SNOW...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM 7

AM TO 11 PM EST TUESDAY. THE WINTER STORM WATCH IS NO LONGER IN

EFFECT.

* PRECIPITATION TYPE...SNOW

* ACCUMULATIONS...4 TO 6 INCHES.

* TIMING...LATE TONIGHT THROUGH TUESDAY EVENING. THE HEAVIEST

SNOW WILL BE TUESDAY MORNING THROUGH MIDDAY.

* TEMPERATURES...DROPPING INTO THE SINGLE DIGITS IN THE

MOUNTAINS AND INTO THE TEENS ELSEWHERE. WIND CHILL VALUES WILL

BE AROUND ZERO TUESDAY AFTERNOON DROPPING TO MINUS 15 TUESDAY

NIGHT.

* WINDS...BECOMING NORTH 10 TO 15 MPH WITH GUSTS AROUND 25 MPH

TUESDAY AFTERNOON AND EVENING.

* IMPACTS...ROADS WILL BE SNOW COVERED AND SLIPPERY. THE

COMBINATION OF SNOW AND BLOWING SNOW WILL REDUCE VISIBILITY TO

BELOW ONE-HALF MILE AT TIMES. TRAVELING MAY BE DANGEROUS

TUESDAY. THE MORNING AND EVENING COMMUTE MAY BE IMPACTED BY

THE SNOW.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

A WINTER STORM WARNING FOR HEAVY SNOW MEANS SEVERE WINTER WEATHER

CONDITIONS ARE EXPECTED OR OCCURRING. SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OF

SNOW ARE FORECAST THAT WILL MAKE TRAVEL DANGEROUS. ONLY TRAVEL IN

AN EMERGENCY. IF YOU MUST TRAVEL...KEEP AN EXTRA FLASHLIGHT...

FOOD...AND WATER IN YOUR VEHICLE IN CASE OF AN EMERGENCY.

&&

$$

URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BALTIMORE MD/WASHINGTON DC

1220 PM EST MON JAN 20 2014

DCZ001-MDZ004>007-009>011-013-014-016>018-VAZ042-052>055-057-501-

502-210130-

/O.UPG.KLWX.WS.A.0001.140121T1200Z-140122T0400Z/

/O.NEW.KLWX.WS.W.0002.140121T1200Z-140122T0400Z/

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA-FREDERICK MD-CARROLL-NORTHERN BALTIMORE-

HARFORD-MONTGOMERY-HOWARD-SOUTHERN BALTIMORE-PRINCE GEORGES-

ANNE ARUNDEL-CHARLES-ST. MARYS-CALVERT-LOUDOUN-

PRINCE WILLIAM/MANASSAS/MANASSAS PARK-FAIRFAX-

ARLINGTON/FALLS CHURCH/ALEXANDRIA-STAFFORD-KING GEORGE-

NORTHERN FAUQUIER-SOUTHERN FAUQUIER-

INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...WASHINGTON...FREDERICK...WESTMINSTER...

GAITHERSBURG...COLUMBIA...BALTIMORE...ANNAPOLIS...WALDORF...

ST MARYS CITY...LEESBURG...MANASSAS...MANASSAS PARK...FAIRFAX...

ALEXANDRIA...FALLS CHURCH...WARRENTON

1220 PM EST MON JAN 20 2014

...WINTER STORM WARNING IN EFFECT FROM 7 AM TO 11 PM EST

TUESDAY...

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN BALTIMORE MD/WASHINGTON HAS

ISSUED A WINTER STORM WARNING FOR SNOW...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM

7 AM TO 11 PM EST TUESDAY. THE WINTER STORM WATCH IS NO LONGER IN

EFFECT.

* PRECIPITATION TYPE...SNOW

* ACCUMULATIONS...4 TO 6 INCHES.

* TIMING...TUESDAY THROUGH TUESDAY EVENING. THE HEAVIEST SNOW

WILL BE LATE TUESDAY MORNING THROUGH TUESDAY AFTERNOON.

* TEMPERATURES...DROPPING INTO THE TEENS. WIND CHILL VALUES WILL

BE IN THE SINGLE DIGITS ZERO TUESDAY AFTERNOON DROPPING TO

MINUS 10 TUESDAY NIGHT.

* WINDS...BECOMING NORTH 10 TO 15 MPH WITH GUSTS AROUND 25 MPH

TUESDAY AFTERNOON AND EVENING.

* IMPACTS...ROADS WILL BE SNOW COVERED AND SLIPPERY. THE

COMBINATION OF SNOW AND BLOWING SNOW WILL REDUCE VISIBILITY TO

BELOW ONE-HALF MILE AT TIMES. TRAVELING MAY BE DANGEROUS

TUESDAY. THE MORNING AND EVENING COMMUTE MAY BE IMPACTED BY

THE SNOW.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

A WINTER STORM WARNING FOR HEAVY SNOW MEANS SEVERE WINTER WEATHER

CONDITIONS ARE EXPECTED OR OCCURRING. SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OF

SNOW ARE FORECAST THAT WILL MAKE TRAVEL DANGEROUS. ONLY TRAVEL IN

AN EMERGENCY. IF YOU MUST TRAVEL...KEEP AN EXTRA FLASHLIGHT...

FOOD...AND WATER IN YOUR VEHICLE IN CASE OF AN EMERGENCY.

&&

$$

URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BALTIMORE MD/WASHINGTON DC

1220 PM EST MON JAN 20 2014

MDZ003-501-502-VAZ025>031-503-504-WVZ050>053-055-501>506-210130-

/O.UPG.KLWX.WS.A.0001.140121T0900Z-140122T0400Z/

/O.NEW.KLWX.WS.W.0002.140121T0900Z-140122T0400Z/

WASHINGTON-EXTREME WESTERN ALLEGANY-CENTRAL AND EASTERN ALLEGANY-

AUGUSTA-ROCKINGHAM-SHENANDOAH-FREDERICK VA-PAGE-WARREN-CLARKE-

WESTERN HIGHLAND-EASTERN HIGHLAND-HAMPSHIRE-MORGAN-BERKELEY-

JEFFERSON-HARDY-WESTERN GRANT-EASTERN GRANT-WESTERN MINERAL-

EASTERN MINERAL-WESTERN PENDLETON-EASTERN PENDLETON-

INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...HAGERSTOWN...FROSTBURG...CUMBERLAND...

STAUNTON...WAYNESBORO...HARRISONBURG...WINCHESTER...FRONT ROYAL...

HIGHTOWN...MONTEREY...MARTINSBURG...CHARLES TOWN...MOOREFIELD...

BAYARD...MOUNT STORM...PETERSBURG...ELK GARDEN...KEYSER...

FORT ASHBY...CIRCLEVILLE...FRANKLIN

1220 PM EST MON JAN 20 2014

...WINTER STORM WARNING IN EFFECT FROM 4 AM TO 11 PM EST

TUESDAY...

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN BALTIMORE MD/WASHINGTON HAS

ISSUED A WINTER STORM WARNING FOR SNOW...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM 4 AM

TO 11 PM EST TUESDAY. THE WINTER STORM WATCH IS NO LONGER IN

EFFECT.

* PRECIPITATION TYPE...SNOW

* ACCUMULATIONS...6 TO 8 INCHES WITH HIGHER AMOUNTS OF 8 TO 10

INCHES ACROSS THE HIGHER ELEVATIONS OF THE POTOMAC HIGHLANDS.

* TIMING...LATE TONIGHT THROUGH TUESDAY EVENING. THE HEAVIEST

SNOW WILL BE TUESDAY MORNING THROUGH MIDDAY.

* TEMPERATURES...DROPPING INTO THE SINGLE DIGITS IN THE

MOUNTAINS AND INTO THE TEENS ELSEWHERE. WIND CHILL VALUES WILL

BE AROUND ZERO TUESDAY AFTERNOON DROPPING TO MINUS 15 TUESDAY

NIGHT.

* WINDS...BECOMING NORTH 10 TO 15 MPH WITH GUSTS AROUND 25 MPH

TUESDAY AFTERNOON AND EVENING.

* IMPACTS...ROADS WILL BE SNOW COVERED AND SLIPPERY. THE

COMBINATION OF SNOW AND BLOWING SNOW WILL REDUCE VISIBILITY TO

BELOW ONE-HALF MILE AT TIMES. TRAVELING MAY BE DANGEROUS

TUESDAY. THE MORNING AND EVENING COMMUTE MAY BE IMPACTED BY

THE SNOW.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

A WINTER STORM WARNING FOR HEAVY SNOW MEANS SEVERE WINTER WEATHER

CONDITIONS ARE EXPECTED OR OCCURRING. SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OF

SNOW ARE FORECAST THAT WILL MAKE TRAVEL DANGEROUS. ONLY TRAVEL IN

AN EMERGENCY. IF YOU MUST TRAVEL...KEEP AN EXTRA FLASHLIGHT...

FOOD...AND WATER IN YOUR VEHICLE IN CASE OF AN EMERGENCY.

&&

$$

[mappy]

yeah, should be interesting either way...looking forward to snow/wind combo more than anything.

 

will put us up over the 24" mark

[Scraff]

If anyone has fluffy feet, they need to get that checked out by a medical professional immediately.

[yoda]

Really thought they would wait on the warnings till this afternoon (as in the 3pm package) but alrighty then

[stormtracker]

That certainly was correct with the last clipper the morphed bigger.   I've written an not so good article today.

Huh?  Why not?

[usedtobe]

URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGENATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BALTIMORE MD/WASHINGTON DC1220 PM EST MON JAN 20 2014VAZ036>040-050-051-056-210130-/O.UPG.KLWX.WS.A.0001.140121T0900Z-140122T0400Z//O.NEW.KLWX.WS.W.0002.140121T1200Z-140122T0400Z/NELSON-ALBEMARLE-GREENE-MADISON-RAPPAHANNOCK-ORANGE-CULPEPER-SPOTSYLVANIA-INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...CHARLOTTESVILLE...WASHINGTON...CULPEPER...FREDERICKSBURG1220 PM EST MON JAN 20 2014...WINTER STORM WARNING IN EFFECT FROM 7 AM TO 11 PM ESTTUESDAY...THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN BALTIMORE MD/WASHINGTON HASISSUED A WINTER STORM WARNING FOR SNOW...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM 7AM TO 11 PM EST TUESDAY. THE WINTER STORM WATCH IS NO LONGER INEFFECT.* PRECIPITATION TYPE...SNOW* ACCUMULATIONS...4 TO 6 INCHES.* TIMING...LATE TONIGHT THROUGH TUESDAY EVENING. THE HEAVIEST  SNOW WILL BE TUESDAY MORNING THROUGH MIDDAY.* TEMPERATURES...DROPPING INTO THE SINGLE DIGITS IN THE  MOUNTAINS AND INTO THE TEENS ELSEWHERE. WIND CHILL VALUES WILL  BE AROUND ZERO TUESDAY AFTERNOON DROPPING TO MINUS 15 TUESDAY  NIGHT.* WINDS...BECOMING NORTH 10 TO 15 MPH WITH GUSTS AROUND 25 MPH  TUESDAY AFTERNOON AND EVENING.* IMPACTS...ROADS WILL BE SNOW COVERED AND SLIPPERY. THE  COMBINATION OF SNOW AND BLOWING SNOW WILL REDUCE VISIBILITY TO  BELOW ONE-HALF MILE AT TIMES. TRAVELING MAY BE DANGEROUS  TUESDAY. THE MORNING AND EVENING COMMUTE MAY BE IMPACTED BY  THE SNOW.PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...A WINTER STORM WARNING FOR HEAVY SNOW MEANS SEVERE WINTER WEATHERCONDITIONS ARE EXPECTED OR OCCURRING.  SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OFSNOW ARE FORECAST THAT WILL MAKE TRAVEL DANGEROUS. ONLY TRAVEL INAN EMERGENCY. IF YOU MUST TRAVEL...KEEP AN EXTRA FLASHLIGHT...FOOD...AND WATER IN YOUR VEHICLE IN CASE OF AN EMERGENCY.&&$$

URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGENATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BALTIMORE MD/WASHINGTON DC1220 PM EST MON JAN 20 2014DCZ001-MDZ004>007-009>011-013-014-016>018-VAZ042-052>055-057-501-502-210130-/O.UPG.KLWX.WS.A.0001.140121T1200Z-140122T0400Z//O.NEW.KLWX.WS.W.0002.140121T1200Z-140122T0400Z/DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA-FREDERICK MD-CARROLL-NORTHERN BALTIMORE-HARFORD-MONTGOMERY-HOWARD-SOUTHERN BALTIMORE-PRINCE GEORGES-ANNE ARUNDEL-CHARLES-ST. MARYS-CALVERT-LOUDOUN-PRINCE WILLIAM/MANASSAS/MANASSAS PARK-FAIRFAX-ARLINGTON/FALLS CHURCH/ALEXANDRIA-STAFFORD-KING GEORGE-NORTHERN FAUQUIER-SOUTHERN FAUQUIER-INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...WASHINGTON...FREDERICK...WESTMINSTER...GAITHERSBURG...COLUMBIA...BALTIMORE...ANNAPOLIS...WALDORF...ST MARYS CITY...LEESBURG...MANASSAS...MANASSAS PARK...FAIRFAX...ALEXANDRIA...FALLS CHURCH...WARRENTON1220 PM EST MON JAN 20 2014...WINTER STORM WARNING IN EFFECT FROM 7 AM TO 11 PM ESTTUESDAY...THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN BALTIMORE MD/WASHINGTON HASISSUED A WINTER STORM WARNING FOR SNOW...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM7 AM TO 11 PM EST TUESDAY. THE WINTER STORM WATCH IS NO LONGER INEFFECT.* PRECIPITATION TYPE...SNOW* ACCUMULATIONS...4 TO 6 INCHES.* TIMING...TUESDAY THROUGH TUESDAY EVENING. THE HEAVIEST SNOW  WILL BE LATE TUESDAY MORNING THROUGH TUESDAY AFTERNOON.* TEMPERATURES...DROPPING INTO THE TEENS. WIND CHILL VALUES WILL  BE IN THE SINGLE DIGITS ZERO TUESDAY AFTERNOON DROPPING TO  MINUS 10 TUESDAY NIGHT.* WINDS...BECOMING NORTH 10 TO 15 MPH WITH GUSTS AROUND 25 MPH  TUESDAY AFTERNOON AND EVENING.* IMPACTS...ROADS WILL BE SNOW COVERED AND SLIPPERY. THE  COMBINATION OF SNOW AND BLOWING SNOW WILL REDUCE VISIBILITY TO  BELOW ONE-HALF MILE AT TIMES. TRAVELING MAY BE DANGEROUS  TUESDAY. THE MORNING AND EVENING COMMUTE MAY BE IMPACTED BY  THE SNOW.PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...A WINTER STORM WARNING FOR HEAVY SNOW MEANS SEVERE WINTER WEATHERCONDITIONS ARE EXPECTED OR OCCURRING.  SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OFSNOW ARE FORECAST THAT WILL MAKE TRAVEL DANGEROUS. ONLY TRAVEL INAN EMERGENCY. IF YOU MUST TRAVEL...KEEP AN EXTRA FLASHLIGHT...FOOD...AND WATER IN YOUR VEHICLE IN CASE OF AN EMERGENCY.&&$$

URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGENATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE BALTIMORE MD/WASHINGTON DC1220 PM EST MON JAN 20 2014MDZ003-501-502-VAZ025>031-503-504-WVZ050>053-055-501>506-210130-/O.UPG.KLWX.WS.A.0001.140121T0900Z-140122T0400Z//O.NEW.KLWX.WS.W.0002.140121T0900Z-140122T0400Z/WASHINGTON-EXTREME WESTERN ALLEGANY-CENTRAL AND EASTERN ALLEGANY-AUGUSTA-ROCKINGHAM-SHENANDOAH-FREDERICK VA-PAGE-WARREN-CLARKE-WESTERN HIGHLAND-EASTERN HIGHLAND-HAMPSHIRE-MORGAN-BERKELEY-JEFFERSON-HARDY-WESTERN GRANT-EASTERN GRANT-WESTERN MINERAL-EASTERN MINERAL-WESTERN PENDLETON-EASTERN PENDLETON-INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...HAGERSTOWN...FROSTBURG...CUMBERLAND...STAUNTON...WAYNESBORO...HARRISONBURG...WINCHESTER...FRONT ROYAL...HIGHTOWN...MONTEREY...MARTINSBURG...CHARLES TOWN...MOOREFIELD...BAYARD...MOUNT STORM...PETERSBURG...ELK GARDEN...KEYSER...FORT ASHBY...CIRCLEVILLE...FRANKLIN1220 PM EST MON JAN 20 2014...WINTER STORM WARNING IN EFFECT FROM 4 AM TO 11 PM ESTTUESDAY...THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN BALTIMORE MD/WASHINGTON HASISSUED A WINTER STORM WARNING FOR SNOW...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM 4 AMTO 11 PM EST TUESDAY. THE WINTER STORM WATCH IS NO LONGER INEFFECT.* PRECIPITATION TYPE...SNOW* ACCUMULATIONS...6 TO 8 INCHES WITH HIGHER AMOUNTS OF 8 TO 10  INCHES ACROSS THE HIGHER ELEVATIONS OF THE POTOMAC HIGHLANDS.* TIMING...LATE TONIGHT THROUGH TUESDAY EVENING. THE HEAVIEST  SNOW WILL BE TUESDAY MORNING THROUGH MIDDAY.* TEMPERATURES...DROPPING INTO THE SINGLE DIGITS IN THE  MOUNTAINS AND INTO THE TEENS ELSEWHERE. WIND CHILL VALUES WILL  BE AROUND ZERO TUESDAY AFTERNOON DROPPING TO MINUS 15 TUESDAY  NIGHT.* WINDS...BECOMING NORTH 10 TO 15 MPH WITH GUSTS AROUND 25 MPH  TUESDAY AFTERNOON AND EVENING.* IMPACTS...ROADS WILL BE SNOW COVERED AND SLIPPERY. THE  COMBINATION OF SNOW AND BLOWING SNOW WILL REDUCE VISIBILITY TO  BELOW ONE-HALF MILE AT TIMES. TRAVELING MAY BE DANGEROUS  TUESDAY. THE MORNING AND EVENING COMMUTE MAY BE IMPACTED BY  THE SNOW.PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...A WINTER STORM WARNING FOR HEAVY SNOW MEANS SEVERE WINTER WEATHERCONDITIONS ARE EXPECTED OR OCCURRING.  SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OFSNOW ARE FORECAST THAT WILL MAKE TRAVEL DANGEROUS. ONLY TRAVEL INAN EMERGENCY. IF YOU MUST TRAVEL...KEEP AN EXTRA FLASHLIGHT...FOOD...AND WATER IN YOUR VEHICLE IN CASE OF AN EMERGENCY.&&$$

It's a good warning. 

[Grothar of Herndon]

Really thought they would wait on the warnings till this afternoon (as in the 3pm package) but alrighty then

Do you know if they have already seen the Euro? Just curious as to why now and not 3 pm.

[Ian]

Do you know if they have already seen the Euro? Just curious as to why now and not 3 pm.

No it hasn't spit out yet. They don't get it any faster. We don't need no stinking wetter euro.

[usedtobe]

Huh?  Why not?

You'll like it but the general public might not,  I was rushed for time.  I also used the NAm sounding instead of the better GFS sounding when discussion dendrites as if anyone but geeks care about them.

[peribonca]

The short and long term discussion from LWX is a thing of beauty

[usedtobe]

No it hasn't spit out yet. They don't get it any faster. We don't need no stinking wetter euro.

Are you editing today? or Dan.  I like wetter than Dan.  Wonder what we'll end up with. 

[BTRWx]

What a delayed NOAA weather radio signal I just received.

[Ian]

Are you editing today? or Dan. I like wetter than Dan. Wonder what we'll end up with.

Hopefully Dan or I'm wasting time. He is but I doubt he will override you given the convo this am.

[Subtropics]

How do we get this storm tucked? 

[smokeybandit]

Get the warnings out now, scare all the people into staying home tomorrow, make it easier for my drive to work.

[clskinsfan]

Wow. Warnings for 4-10 for the entire area. Bullish and I love it. 

[tplbge]

How do we get this storm tucked? 

Tuck rules only get made up on the fly for New England.

[yoda]

The short and long term discussion from LWX is a thing of beauty

 

Its still from 954 this morning

[Don Cherry's Jacket]

Question: what exactly is a "tucked" storm? And, how likely is that to happen?

[usedtobe]

Hopefully Dan or I'm wasting time. He is but I doubt he will override you given the convo this am.

I fear it needs Jason's touch at sprucing it up. 

[snow.]

Hopefully Dan or I'm wasting time. He is but I doubt he will override you given the convo this am.

 

1"-10" - low confidence?

[Interstate]

My First Call

 LOL

[BTRWx]

Would higher temperatures today enhance or limit our potential tomorrow? I would think the two possibilities would be enhancement in the sense of strong dynamics from extreme warmth to extreme cold or limiting in the sense that temperatures tomorrow wouldn't drop as much as currently forecast. Any thoughts?

[MN Transplant]

Would higher temperatures today enhance or limit our potential tomorrow? I would think the two possibilities would be enhancement in the sense of strong dynamics from extreme warmth to extreme cold or limiting in the sense that temperatures tomorrow wouldn't drop as much as currently forecast. Any thoughts?

 

The models have accounted for the warm temps today.

[Ian]

1"-10" - low confidence?

Haha. Na Wes likes lollis to 28". I think Jason is handling, Wes.