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January 20-? Cold snap


Ottawa Blizzard

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You're in a belt. If I were you my mouth would be watering over a pattern like this.

 

I don't live in a snowbelt. I am in Hamburg a town with a population of nearly 60,000 people. I am 14 miles south of Buffalo which helps in terms of snowfall, but the real snowbelt is 20-30 minutes away from me in the hills. Perrysburg in Chautauqua county is near 200 inches on the year already. The nearby snowbelts are 10-15 minutes or so away and already have 150+ inches on the year.

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Wow, that's pretty crazy. Mine is at 65-66° most of the time in the winter.

 

Really? If my thermostat is lower than 70F, my house begins getting colder, which is why I keep it around 75 to 78F. Must be the  different climatology you and I must have? Whats your mean temperature anomalies for DJF?  

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Really? If my thermostat is lower than 70F, my house begins getting colder, which is why I keep it around 75 to 78F. Must be the  different climatology you and I must have? Whats your mean temperature anomalies for DJF?  

Right now, it is 68F/20C inside my house, which is comfortable for me. I find that we North Americans overheat our homes. I'd rather have a temperature of 68F and a blanket at night than be sweating buckets.

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Does Lake Ontario ever freeze over?

 

As Westcoaster stated it very rarely freezes over because of how deep the lake is. The outer edges usually freeze over in most normal winters but the middle usually does not. I believe it has frozen over 5 times in record keeping history which equates to 90% ice coverage. Here is a good article about that.

 

http://www.mynewwaterfronthome.com/greatlakesfreeze.aspx

 

Chance-Freezing-300x202.jpg

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As Westcoaster stated it very rarely freezes over because of how deep the lake is. The outer edges usually freeze over in most normal winters but the middle usually does not. I believe it has frozen over 5 times in record keeping history which equates to 90% ice coverage. Here is a good article about that.

 

http://www.mynewwaterfronthome.com/greatlakesfreeze.aspx

 

Chance-Freezing-300x202.jpg

 

 

Lake Ontario can definitely deliver LES all winter

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JB has been busting forehead veins over this coming pattern for the last three days in his columns, here is an excerpt from today using Chicago as a marker:

 

What happens after that is the stuff legends are made of. Again, that ITS EVEN ON THE TABLE... this outbreak comes south over the pole and reaches the lakes day 10-11 ( upper support) and that it comes after what is a major cold outbreak that is coming day 5-8 should startle even the most stoic among you.

I cant believe this, this is the worst it could possibly get in a place like Chicago. Even if 15 warmer at night, its severe

A week with average highs near -5 and average lows near -20, with one night near -30.

What is startling is this was the warmer of the models in the last 2 outbreaks

 

Who is this JB guy and where is his blog?

 

I'm not usually one to complain about extremes but goddamn this heating cycle is gonna break the bank 

 

Thermostats already fixed on 62 and we're probably gonna end up moving it lower if this pans out  :arrowhead:

 

I think i win the thermostat challenge. The highest my thermo goes is 60 on the weekend, in the mornings and evenings and 55 the rest of the time.

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My benchmark for this upcoming cold wave is a second "zero day" in Toronto. We managed it on the 7th, let's see if we can do it again if not on the 21st or 22nd, then maybe on the 27th or 28th. I'd also like to see a morning low of fifteen below Fahrenheit.

 

I think we will really struggle to dip below -10F with this given the pitiful snow cover

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I don't live in a snowbelt. I am in Hamburg a town with a population of nearly 60,000 people. I am 14 miles south of Buffalo which helps in terms of snowfall, but the real snowbelt is 20-30 minutes away from me in the hills. Perrysburg in Chautauqua county is near 200 inches on the year already. The nearby snowbelts are 10-15 minutes or so away and already have 150+ inches on the year.

 

Can we define snowbelt? You get frequent bouts of LES and your yearly average probably approaches 100". To me, that's a snowbelt, even if there are locales that are even more impressive.

 

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Can we define snowbelt? You get frequent bouts of LES and your yearly average probably approaches 100". To me, that's a snowbelt, even if there are locales that are even more impressive.

 

 

The city of Buffalo averages 95-105 inches of snow per year. I average around 105-120 down here. The snow belts average 200+ south and east of Buffalo.

 

I just don't consider a suburb that contains 60k people to be a snowbelt. Especially since its a 15-20 minute drive to downtown Buffalo. The real snow-belts are in ski country where they average double my snowfall and have 2k+ elevation.

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The city of Buffalo averages 95-105 inches of snow per year. I average around 105-120 down here. The snow belts average 200+ south and east of Buffalo.

You're in a snow-belt.

 

Just like the area from NW. IN into W. MI is a snow-belt...But obviously averages vary greatly.

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You're in a snow-belt.

 

Just like the area from NW. IN into W. MI is a snow-belt...But obviously averages vary greatly.

 

 

I was just thinking of the IN/MI comparison...that entire area is unofficially known as the snowbelt despite averages ranging from around 50-100"+

 

I'm with you and canuck on a more liberal definition...if you get numerous LES events per winter and a substantial percentage of your snow comes from LES, you're in the snowbelt. 

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I disagree and most local mets would as well.

snowseas.gif

 

 

 

I'm not sure how this map helps you. As I've stated, just because you're not in the bullseye doesn't mean you're not in a snowbelt. Maybe it's a local WNY thing to call the heavier LES areas as the "snowbelt" but to every other non-local, you're in a snowbelt.

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I can relate to what BuffaloWeather is saying. It's more about a local snow belt than anything. To the outside world anything on the lee of the Great Lakes that gets lake effect is the "snow belt".

 

But watch local news, media, radio, even AFDs from this region and the "snow belt" means an entirely different thing. CLE averages about 70" of snow per year but is not considered in the "snow belt" by anyone here. Yet, most outside the region would define that as snow belt. In fact there are some urban/suburban areas here on the east side of Cleveland that average 80-90" per year and many who live in those suburbs would not consider themselves to live in the snow belt as the best bands generally set up to their north and east in the "real snow belt".

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I agree with the 1" not doing much for albedo, but from what I have read getting to 4"+ the marginal albedo per inch (slope) really drops off..

4" should cover the chisel plowed soy and corn fields, but probably not the winter wheat...also rooftop snow may not last that long with just 4"..

I have never seen any info on radiative effects by depth curious if that's out there..

Not saying you are wrong just curious as to what the science is behind snowpack depth and cooling.

What JB is saying is not going to happen. He is hyping this up way too much. If the area doesn't see any significant snow cover increase before this cold shot, it'll probably end up being warmer than last week. 1-4" of snow on the ground across the area doesn't have the same effect as the 10-16" did last week.

What JB is saying is not going to happen. He is hyping this up way too much. If the area doesn't see any significant snow cover increase before this cold shot, it'll probably end up being warmer than last week. 1-4" of snow on the ground across the area doesn't have the same effect as the 10-16" did last week.

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I'm not sure how this map helps you. As I've stated, just because you're not in the bullseye doesn't mean you're not in a snowbelt. Maybe it's a local WNY thing to call the heavier LES areas as the "snowbelt" but to every other non-local, you're in a snowbelt.

 

This, exactly. But I agree with you, I guess we are in the snowbelt to everyone else in the United States.

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Take the lakes away and all of that 60-200"+ area is gone.

 

You're in a snow-belt.

 

+1

 

Buffaloweather you're in a snow belt. Especially if you ask someone from outside of areas that don't get LES or very little of it.

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Wow. The 0z GFS shows it actually going above freezing in Chicago on the 28th, nevermind below zero!

 

Yep, it completely lost the end of the month cold, except for a 1-day spell on the 27th.

 

For Columbus.

 

18z

27th: 19/-19

28th: 20/-5

29th: 19/-25

30th: 21/-1

31st: 19/-7

 

0z

27th: 6/-5

28th: 34/-3

29th: 38/33

30th: 38/32

31st: 49/36

 

The 18z was pretty weird with the wild swings, but it was at least consistent with the extreme cold.  0z is a thaw.

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