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Winter 13-14' Med/Long Range Discussion Part 2


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total snooze fest

 

yep....especially considering those modest snowfall totals will probably not even verify.   Euro looks kick-in-the-ballz cold from day 8 on....fugly, all I'm gonna want to do is snooze.

 

I'm just trying to figure out how CMH gets it's inevitable rain in this pattern.   I'm thinking a piece of the vortex breaks off and drops sw and phases with an incoming southern stream and we end up with GHD II or something like that.

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yep....especially considering those modest snowfall totals will probably not even verify.   Euro looks kick-in-the-ballz cold from day 8 on....fugly, all I'm gonna want to do is snooze.

 

I'm just trying to figure out how CMH gets it's inevitable rain in this pattern.   I'm thinking a piece of the vortex breaks off and drops sw and phases with an incoming southern stream and we end up with GHD II or something like that.

Inevitable Buck. Inevitable!

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I'm definitely on board for what the EURO/GEM/GFS show beyond D7. Keeping -EPO, weakening the PNA ridge a bit and lifting the PV north enough to allow for systems to amplify a bit, but not so much as to flush all the cold air out. Could be an excellent storm pattern.

 

Until then...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

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I'm definitely on board for what the EURO/GEM/GFS show beyond D7. Keeping -EPO, weakening the PNA ridge a bit and lifting the PV north enough to allow for systems to amplify a bit, but not so much as to flush all the cold air out. Could be an excellent storm pattern.

 

Until then...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

The pattern going into early February looks promising, although that is still way out in fantasy-land.

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Nice storm at 168 on the OP ECMWF. Lock it in. 

 

Obviously as per discussion above, there's no sense taking that to the bank but it's nice to see a big storm signal pop up (especially a non-coastal system). Agree with other posters though that the pattern should start to get interesting again as we transition out of Jan into Feb.

  

Stale pattern has kept me off the board for a while, probably for the better as I was spending far too many hours on the models/boards in December/early January haha.

 

Funny how the meteorological definition of winter is so much different than the general public's. Heard this headline on Toronto's news radio (680News) today: "Well we aren't even a third of the way through winter, but it looks like chilly temperatures are here to stay for a while."

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Nice storm at 168 on the OP ECMWF. Lock it in. 

 

Obviously as per discussion above, there's no sense taking that to the bank but it's nice to see a big storm signal pop up (especially a non-coastal system). Agree with other posters though that the pattern should start to get interesting again as we transition out of Jan into Feb.

  

Stale pattern has kept me off the board for a while, probably for the better as I was spending far too many hours on the models/boards in December/early January haha.

 

Funny how the meteorological definition of winter is so much different than the general public's. Heard this headline on Toronto's news radio (680News) today: "Well we aren't even a third of the way through winter, but it looks like chilly temperatures are here to stay for a while."

 

Am I missing something? All I see on the EURO at 168 is a clipper whiffing us to the south.

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OUR ATTENTION FOR THE WEEKEND TURNS TO THE STRONGLY AMPLIFYING RIDGE

OVER THE WEST COAST OF NORTH AMERICA. THE SHARPLY TIGHTENING HEIGHT

GRADIENT BETWEEN THIS RIDGE WILL LEAD TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF A

POWERFUL JET STREAK THAT WILL COME DIVING ACROSS THE UPPER MIDWEST

FRIDAY NIGHT AS ANOTHER DEEP LOW DROPS OUT OF THE CANADIAN

ARCTIC TO THE VICINITY OF JAMES BAY BY SATURDAY EVENING. A LOOK AT

THE 1.5 PVU SURFACES OF BOTH THE ECMWF AND GFS IS UNNERVING AS

HEIGHTS DROP TO ANYWHERE FROM 650MB TO 725MB IN THE VICINITY OF

SOUTHERN ONTARIO WITH A 980ISH MB SURFACE LOW REACHING MAXIMUM

INTENSITY OVER THE OTTAWA VALLEY SATURDAY. WHILE THERE ARE

TIMING/POSITION DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MODELS REGARDING THE FINER

DETAILS...THIS SCENARIO BEARS CLOSE WATCHING AS IT COULD BRING A

POTENTIALLY SIGNIFICANT SNOWSTORM/WIND EVENT TO THE LOWER GREAT

LAKES THIS WEEKEND FOLLOWED BY YET ANOTHER ROUND OF VERY COLD

TEMPERATURES FOR THE SECOND HALF OF THE WEEKEND WELL INTO NEXT WEEK

AS THE LONGWAVE TROUGH SETS UP ACROSS THE REGION. NEEDLESS TO SAY

THIS COULD ALSO RESULT IN POTENTIALLY SIGNIFICANT LAKE EFFECT

SNOWS...AT LEAST EAST OF LAKE ONTARIO...ALONG WITH POTENTIALLY

DANGEROUS WIND CHILLS. WINTER WILL BE HERE TO STAY FOR QUITE SOME

TIME.

:popcorn:

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surprised to see ORD is already over their season average...couple big dogs plus near constant clipper nickel and dime action will do that. Could post a real big number if we can get another big dog.

Many midwest/Lakes cities have already exceeded their seasonal average and its not quite to the halfway point of the season. With the spread the wealth nature that different storms have taken, it could be a historic season if the 2nd half is anything close to the first.

 

Average season total already exceeded through January 19th:

STL...20.2"........(avg entire season..17.8"....avg thru 1/19....8.5")

DAY...30.2"........(avg entire season..24.0"....avg thru 1/19..10.3")

IND....32.3"........(avg entire season..25.9"....avg thru 1/19..13.2")

ORD..38.9"........(avg entire season..36.7"....avg thru 1/19..16.1")

TOL...41.0"........(avg entire season..37.6"....avg thru 1/19..16.4")

DTW..43.1"........(avg entire season..42.7"....avg thru 1/19..19.0")

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And you gave me a hard time for feeling negative about this month.

I honestly don't see what the problem is. I went for a walk today and it looked and felt very wintry. Fresh layer of snow, plenty of snow on the local hill for people who want to toboggan, local pond frozen solid and looking like something out of a picture postcard. It looks like winter. Feels like winter. We had snow for the buildup to Christmas, a classic, frosty Christmas Eve and snow on the ground on Christmas Day. This has been a reasonable winter, far better than the past two crap winters. 2011-2012 was godawful, as was the first half of 2012-2013.  It could be a lot worse! In my mind, I feel like we are having a traditional winter.

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I honestly don't see what the problem is. I went for a walk today and it looked and felt very wintry. Fresh layer of snow, plenty of snow on the local hill for people who want to toboggan, local pond frozen solid and looking like something out of a picture postcard. It looks like winter. Feels like winter. We had snow for the buildup to Christmas, a classic, frosty Christmas Eve and snow on the ground on Christmas Day. This has been a reasonable winter, far better than the past two crap winters. 2011-2012 was godawful, as was the first half of 2012-2013.  It could be a lot worse! In my mind, I feel like we are having a traditional winter.

 

Assuming we get no big storm the rest of the way, and/or no 1-2 week period of several moderate snowfalls, 2012-13 will have 2013-14 beat imho. Feb 8, 2013 is the trump card.

 

Temps are a humungous difference but like I said earlier, it really has no bearing in my assessment.

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Assuming we get no big storm the rest of the way, and/or no 1-2 week period of several moderate snowfalls, 2012-13 will have 2013-14 beat imho. Feb 8, 2013 is the trump card.

 

Temps are a humungous difference but like I said earlier, it really has no bearing in my assessment.

Albeit Dec.14 was a pleasant surprise, Feb 8 still takes the cake. The fact that it has been very "normal" (and some decent cold shots), I'd say 13-14 is still winning but by a VERY slim margin. I absolutely agree that 12-13 takes it for its strong second half if 13-14 doesn't deliver next month. 13-14 first half < 12-13's second half

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Albeit Dec.14 was a pleasant surprise, Feb 8 still takes the cake. The fact that it has been very "normal" (and some decent cold shots), I'd say 13-14 is still winning but by a VERY slim margin. I absolutely agree that 12-13 takes it for its strong second half if 13-14 doesn't deliver next month. 13-14 first half < 12-13's second half

 

After two weeks of nothingness, the GFS wants to re-up us for another two weeks. All that storminess it was showing on those earlier runs has evaporated.

 

The horseshoe shape area of + snowfall departures around us is starting to remind me a bit of 2009-10.

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Assuming we get no big storm the rest of the way, and/or no 1-2 week period of several moderate snowfalls, 2012-13 will have 2013-14 beat imho. Feb 8, 2013 is the trump card.

 

Temps are a humungous difference but like I said earlier, it really has no bearing in my assessment.

The length of time we have snow on the grounds factors into my assessment.

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After two weeks of nothingness, the GFS wants to re-up us for another two weeks. All that storminess it was showing on those earlier runs has evaporated.

 

The horseshoe shape area of + snowfall departures around us is starting to remind me a bit of 2009-10.

 

09-10 is a good analog. It matches perfectly for the west coast.

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After two weeks of nothingness, the GFS wants to re-up us for another two weeks. All that storminess it was showing on those earlier runs has evaporated.

 

The horseshoe shape area of + snowfall departures around us is starting to remind me a bit of 2009-10.

I think there is definitely some pattern potential coming up.  PNA falling, EPO ridge retro's and some weak blocking develops over the top past D9. Could mean we see the storm track back too far west or we may really cash in on some nice pac disturbances(has a Dec 2008 look to it). In the 96-240hr range the 0z euro really changed its tune with 3 sizeable clippers moving through dropping .2"+ of QPF each. The GFS has two of them across our area but is further south with the third one. Would be high ratio snow's, so if the model puts out .2-.3" of liquid could end up with some impressive totals. Something to watch for, although i'm not betting the farm on the upcoming clipper train.

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09-10 is a good analog. It matches perfectly for the west coast.

Not so much for Toronto. That winter saw the city with bare ground while places all around it - and in Europe - were getting bombed with snow. I have about a 4" snowpack. It was also much warmer in Quebec due to high latitude blocking which torched Labrador.

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Not so much for Toronto. That winter saw the city with bare ground while places all around it - and in Europe - were getting bombed with snow. I have about a 4" snowpack. It was also much warmer in Quebec due to high latitude blocking which torched Labrador.

There hasn't been much snow depth at all in the city

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Not so much for Toronto. That winter saw the city with bare ground while places all around it - and in Europe - were getting bombed with snow. I have about a 4" snowpack. It was also much warmer in Quebec due to high latitude blocking which torched Labrador.

 

Snowdepth at Pearson and downtown is 2". Places all around us are getting bombed with snow. We've had more total snow obviously, but wrt to us being in a relative screwhole, 2009-10 does seem to fit nicely.

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