Jump to content
  • Member Statistics

    17,606
    Total Members
    7,904
    Most Online
    ArlyDude
    Newest Member
    ArlyDude
    Joined

Winter 13-14' Med/Long Range Discussion Part 2


Chicago Storm

Recommended Posts

Accuweather may claim to be a national forecast center, but they are extremely east coast biased. Winter will return one last time in early march? ooooh Im shaking in my boots :lol:. Outside of 2012, when is winter NOT still around in early March (or some point later) in our neck of the woods lol.

 

Geos wouldn't have posted that, if it didn't have "mild air follows the storm". ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 979
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Accuweather is for the storm and a reprieve from the current state of affairs.

 

650x366_02071717_hd20.jpg

 

They say right out though, that winter will return one last time in early March.

They are pretty much banking on the euro weeklies week 4 forecast panning out if they are making that call. The MJO progression (shifting from eastern to central IO) would suggest that we see increased return flow across the plains with a +NAO/maritime trough and plains ridging. Not seeing a terribly strong signal from the roundy plots, however. The wave 2 strat split and N Pac SST forcing is probably the main driver that can encourage the trough to sit over the east/GL's during the first week of march. Important point to note is the changing forcing you see from a +QBO coupled with a cool biased ENSO neutral once you get into march/april(favours more of an RNA pattern with a much stronger meridional component to the E/SE ridge). 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They are pretty much banking on the euro weeklies week 4 forecast panning out if they are making that call. The MJO progression (shifting from eastern to central IO) would suggest that we see increased return flow across the plains with a +NAO/maritime trough and plains ridging. Not seeing a terribly strong signal from the roundy plots, however. The wave 2 strat split and N Pac SST forcing is probably the main driver that can encourage the trough to sit over the east/GL's during the first week of march. Important point to note is the changing forcing you see from a +QBO coupled with a cool biased ENSO neutral once you get into march/april(favours more of an RNA pattern with a much stronger meridional component to the E/SE ridge). 

Joe Bastardi is riding the Japanese forecast model which has the cold continuing through February. Apparently, according to him, that model was one of the only ones to foresee the cold winter. He says the Euro is having problems this year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They are pretty much banking on the euro weeklies week 4 forecast panning out if they are making that call. The MJO progression (shifting from eastern to central IO) would suggest that we see increased return flow across the plains with a +NAO/maritime trough and plains ridging. Not seeing a terribly strong signal from the roundy plots, however. The wave 2 strat split and N Pac SST forcing is probably the main driver that can encourage the trough to sit over the east/GL's during the first week of march. Important point to note is the changing forcing you see from a +QBO coupled with a cool biased ENSO neutral once you get into march/april(favours more of an RNA pattern with a much stronger meridional component to the E/SE ridge). 

 

I was just pointing out what someone else had. I don't believe the Pacific air will reach all the way to the coast. I do believe most of the sub forum will see the central ridge for a short time at least. Probably areas from eastern Ohio on east into NY, PA will see slightly below normal temps at the most. 

I'm not going to bank on anything past Day 7 at this point. Been seeing too much variability. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Joe Bastardi is riding the Japanese forecast model which has the cold continuing through February. Apparently, according to him, that model was one of the only ones to foresee the cold winter. He says the Euro is having problems this year.

 

JB likes his weather extremes. That's probably why he's in love with the JMA. lol

 

Back in December he said much of the country would see a break in February, and now that it is showing up in some form he trying to go to the most extreme long range solution/outlook!

 

Edit: Skilling now thinking there could be a pattern change coming. "More moderate blend of cold"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This weekend will be the first in about 5 that we haven't had some sort of significant system here, which means we will probably pay double next weekend.

As for the Euro, yes there is little run to run consistency but I wouldn't completely discount the potential. The system that would produce this storm is currently in the western part of the Gulf Of Alaska, and extremely vigorous at that. Plus with it being close to Alaska itself, there is at least partial sampling going on. So the models aren't completely blind to the current phase of the system. Also as it looks right now, the teleconnections look to flip around that time, and when that happens usually something big comes with the pattern flip.

I was planning to write the exact same thing about the potential for a bigger event as the teleconnections change phase. You could say the signal is there on the GFS too, with 990 or lower system, but instead of a sw system a powerful clipper. Remains to be seen if we remain in the west-northwest flow pattern or the -PNA pattern behaves in a more classical way and the southeast ridge pumps to enable a sw flow system into the region similar to what the 12z Euro showed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JB likes his weather extremes. That's probably why he's in love with the JMA. lol

 

Back in December he said much of the country would see a break in February, and now that it is showing up in some form he trying to go to the most extreme long range solution/outlook!

 

Edit: Skilling now thinking there could be a pattern change coming. "More moderate blend of cold"

Well said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

pray for ripping SW flow this spring.

 

Hey, even springtime like cooler near the lake won't be that bad when compared to this winter so far.  40s in April and May will still feel like a dream, I just hope we can still have some storms this spring and they won't always be killed by a lake breeze.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12z GFS very scant with the snowfall in the sub forum for awhile. Upper Michigan/Wisconsin may cash in, which would make Jonger happy.

 

EURO showing the teleconnections doing this...

 

AO: + to neutral/slightly -

NAO: staying +

PNA: - to neutral

EPO: going + by tomorrow

WPO: going + by the 12/13th.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd like to see it get closer to the near term before buying into some of these torchy operational runs (especially 12z) GFS and the 2/7 CFS weeklies. 12z Euro for instance is not nearly as warm, but it looks like it's trying out on day 10 for a big warm up. The large scale signals are pointing toward cutting off cross polar flow (+EPO) and going more zonal but with the amount of snow cover around and cold built up, all it'll take is some weak blocking in NAO region to keep some troughiness around for temperatures to end up closer to average. Certainly looks like we won't be in the freezer anymore after the next round of early week cold, which is a good thing I'd say.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see boring after today. No big dogs most likely, but not completely void of action. And of course, some warmer interludes at times too.

We have to keep in mind that toward the end of the runs, average temps are creeping upward, so mid 30's will be more seasonal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd like to see it get closer to the near term before buying into some of these torchy operational runs (especially 12z) GFS and the 2/7 CFS weeklies. 12z Euro for instance is not nearly as warm, but it looks like it's trying out on day 10 for a big warm up. The large scale signals are pointing toward cutting off cross polar flow (+EPO) and going more zonal but with the amount of snow cover around and cold built up, all it'll take is some weak blocking in NAO region to keep some troughiness around for temperatures to end up closer to average. Certainly looks like we won't be in the freezer anymore after the next round of early week cold, which is a good thing I'd say.

Sent from my SCH-I535

 

At the very least the roads can thaw out and black ice will hopefully decrease as we go forwards. The increasing sun angle will act to compact some of this snow.

 

Thinking a stretch of 40s is reasonable later on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Keep in mind normal temps will feel like a heat wave. I like the idea of a little warmer perhaps lows in the mid 20's so salt will be more effective again. Melting down 2.5" of solid ice in some of the shady low spots in some lots has been nearly impossible.

 

In the heart of winter the general cycle of cold  front, warming then a colder front is turning into a memory I am afraid. Over the next few weeks a new pattern of more spring like weather might be in order. I'm thinking the cold will continue thru Feb and moderate as March gets closer. One thing is certain, the radiant heat from the sun has been increasing over the past week or so. Yesterday with a high of 15°F melting snow was witnessed on lots with no salt in the areas where the asphalt was peeking thru. Had to re-salt as the sun dropped to achieve a non black ice situation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12z GFS very scant with the snowfall in the sub forum for awhile. Upper Michigan/Wisconsin may cash in, which would make Jonger happy.

 

EURO showing the teleconnections doing this...

 

AO: + to neutral/slightly -

NAO: staying +

PNA: - to neutral

EPO: going + by tomorrow

WPO: going + by the 12/13th.

 

Then there is this..

ftp://ftp.cdc.noaa.gov/Public/gbates/reforecast2/teleconn/4panel.png

 

Pick your poison.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As said before though the models will struggle during regime changes. Just best not to get caught up in anything to far out.

 

I am sure the models will change again.

 

Part of the problem may be tied to the MJO which the models for a while had revving up in phase 5/6 and well that is now hanging in the COD and at best may only make a brief entrance into phase 5/6 depending on model.

 

Had it done as some of the models showed ( GFS etc ) then yeah it could have brought a huge change to the wx pattern as typically 5/6 is a warmer signal for this part of the country.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Keep in mind normal temps will feel like a heat wave. I like the idea of a little warmer perhaps lows in the mid 20's so salt will be more effective again. Melting down 2.5" of solid ice in some of the shady low spots in some lots has been nearly impossible.

 

In the heart of winter the general cycle of cold  front, warming then a colder front is turning into a memory I am afraid. Over the next few weeks a new pattern of more spring like weather might be in order. I'm thinking the cold will continue thru Feb and moderate as March gets closer. One thing is certain, the radiant heat from the sun has been increasing over the past week or so. Yesterday with a high of 15°F melting snow was witnessed on lots with no salt in the areas where the asphalt was peeking thru. Had to re-salt as the sun dropped to achieve a non black ice situation.

 

Love your plow industry insights.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...