Plokoon111 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Almost up to 21 ft. So a question, shouldn't the water flow under the ice? Or is it completely iced? I'm guessing the later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazwoper Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 the ice is blocking enough area to reduce the flow so much that the levels are rising. Certainly some water is flowing beneath, otherwise all of Trenton would be under water by now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastonwx Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 NWS issues SWS for "Possible Ice Jams Next Several Days" http://mesonet.agron.iastate.edu/wx/afos/p.php?pil=SPSPHI&e=201401090005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KamuSnow Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I did a little research and looked at the river flow at Trenton and upstream over the last month and in relation to rain and rain/snowmelt events. The median flow for Jan. 8th (based on 100 years) is 13,200 cubic feet per second. Prior to December 22nd it was down around 5000 to 6000, probably due to the 2 weeks of mostly snow in the watershed. There was a peak of around 32,000 cfs around Dec. 24th-25th, due to the rain, warmth and snowmelt, then a decline down to about 12,000 cfs centered around Dec. 29th. A peak of about 22,000 cfs followed on Jan. 1st resulting from the rain on Dec. 29th I would think. Then a decline to about 13,000 cfs last Saturday, Jan. 4th, followed by some funkiness in the flow readings (spikes up to 70,000 cfs) over the weekend - I don't think that much snow fell in the river (ha ha), so maybe it was ice? Apparently the ice does indeed wreak havoc with the flow measuring. At any rate it was back down to about 13,000 cfs by late Monday, and has gone back up through the roof since then (150,000 cfs which is surely wrong and due to the ice). Due to the warmup/rain/snowmelt of Sunday night and early Monday, and based on the apparent flow changes from events in the last month, the flow should have been elevated to at least 20,000 cfs through today, due to the lag effect (for the time it takes for the water to get down to Trenton), without any measuring device malfunctions due to ice. All that to say that there is likely more water than normal trying to get through. And take this with a large grain of salt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violentweatherfan Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I wonder if there was any "dumping of snow" into the river from snow removal contractors. Edit: an after thought, that most likely occur downstream rather than upstream. (Access ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KamuSnow Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 fwiw, the above average flow should have peaked yesterday and be ramping down, so it seems possible the level may start dropping even if nothing else changes, as long as enough water is getting through (under) the ice. Looks like another round of river rises this weekend....could be new ice chunks coming downstream Sunday/Monday? It won't be nearly as cold as this round, so maybe they'll keep moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcwx Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Seems like it broke... gauge dropping rapidly per http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=phi&gage=TREN4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jims Videos Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I took some pics today south of the 29 tunnel. One got picked up by USA today twitter, another retweeted by James Spann. Here they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famartin Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Nice shots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainshadow Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Nice shots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluescat1 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 In colonial times they would collect that ice, put some in a deep hole in the ground then cover it with straw then repeat the process until several layers were formed . they would have a small building over the hole and that would be their refrigeration for most off the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quakertown needs snow Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Nice shots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I took some pics today south of the 29 tunnel. One got picked up by USA today twitter, another retweeted by James Spann. Here they are. Great photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsutherland1 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 In colonial times they would collect that ice, put some in a deep hole in the ground then cover it with straw then repeat the process until several layers were formed . they would have a small building over the hole and that would be their refrigeration for most off the summer. One such scene ca. 1910-1915: Source: Library of Congress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbourton Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 In colonial times they would collect that ice, put some in a deep hole in the ground then cover it with straw then repeat the process until several layers were formed . they would have a small building over the hole and that would be their refrigeration for most off the summer. They actually have one at the Howell Farm that you can visit just off Rt. 29 north of Washington Crossing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcwx Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 They actually have one at the Howell Farm that you can visit just off Rt. 29 north of Washington Crossing. I believe their plan is to harvest ice on 01/25 this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsentropicLift Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I'm thinking we might have a bit of a renewed threat as temps are forecasted to remain below average through the extended. This time we have a snow pack to go a long with it and a few threats on the table as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KamuSnow Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I'm thinking we might have a bit of a renewed threat as temps are forecasted to remain below average through the extended. This time we have a snow pack to go a long with it and a few threats on the table as well. The extended cold periods is where we build up the thicker ice, so any sudden warm ups/heavy rain events down the road would likely have "more ice to work with". It could also be a gradual melting process as February goes on and daytime highs moderate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophisticated Skeptic Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 when's the last time the Delaware completely froze over? these next 2 weeks could be challenging.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KamuSnow Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 when's the last time the Delaware completely froze over? these next 2 weeks could be challenging.. Time to get out the ice skates! (and bring a snow shovel). I wonder if snow on top of the ice slows down the freezing process.....I'm sure it does, but I wonder how much might be a better question. Thinking about ponds here, and any that managed to have some ice before the snow yesterday so the snow isn't stuck to the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophisticated Skeptic Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 dunno if they (NWS) ever issue statements on the matter, but seems like a sure bet...this thing is going solid over the next couple weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plokoon111 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 It only took one night for the Neshaminy to have a thin layer of ice on it. So I would imagine it will be soon that the delaware will suffer the same fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcwx Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 dunno if they (NWS) ever issue statements on the matter, but seems like a sure bet...this thing is going solid over the next couple weeks. check out: http://www.erh.noaa.gov/phi/ice/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluescat1 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Time to get out the ice skates! (and bring a snow shovel). I wonder if snow on top of the ice slows down the freezing process.....I'm sure it does, but I wonder how much might be a better question. Thinking about ponds here, and any that managed to have some ice before the snow yesterday so the snow isn't stuck to the ice. I was cleaning my car this morning and I noticed my car thermometer read 25 degrees, I cleaned of the roof and it fell to 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbourton Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Walked the dog down by the Delaware at Washington's Crossing and the ice floes look the same as during the last event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ_Ken Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Time to get out the ice skates! (and bring a snow shovel). I wonder if snow on top of the ice slows down the freezing process.....I'm sure it does, but I wonder how much might be a better question. Thinking about ponds here, and any that managed to have some ice before the snow yesterday so the snow isn't stuck to the ice. Way, way, way, way back when I was a kid (ahh, I might as well just date myself... it was January 1977), we'd had a long cold snap that froze the ground. Then, we had a brief warm up accompanied by heavy rain that flooded a huge area where my parent's and our neighbors' backyards all came together (it was a low area with sandy soil that usually quickly drained, but because it was frozen, the water just laid on top). This was immediately followed by an insane (and extended) cold snap so that huge "puddle" froze solid almost instantly. For the next 6 weeks, we had a massive skating rink literally right in my backyard, and I am not exaggerating when I say it was large enough to play hockey on. My (and all my friends') parents loved it because they would look right out their back door and know where their kids were and, since the original "puddle" wasn't much more than 6" or so deep, they never had to worry about anybody "falling through the ice". Remember, this wasn't New England or the Upper Midwest... it was South Jersey! My parents lived in that house for the better part of 40 years, and that never happened again before or since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KamuSnow Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Way, way, way, way back when I was a kid (ahh, I might as well just date myself... it was January 1977), we'd had a long cold snap that froze the ground. Then, we had a brief warm up accompanied by heavy rain that flooded a huge area where my parent's and our neighbors' backyards all came together (it was a low area with sandy soil that usually quickly drained, but because it was frozen, the water just laid on top). This was immediately followed by an insane (and extended) cold snap so that huge "puddle" froze solid almost instantly. For the next 6 weeks, we had a massive skating rink literally right in my backyard, and I am not exaggerating when I say it was large enough to play hockey on. My (and all my friends') parents loved it because they would look right out their back door and know where their kids were and, since the original "puddle" wasn't much more than 6" or so deep, they never had to worry about anybody "falling through the ice". Remember, this wasn't New England or the Upper Midwest... it was South Jersey! My parents lived in that house for the better part of 40 years, and that never happened again before or since. I remember that winter also . Did a lot of ice skating on ponds that year and the following winter too. I had the thought at one point a few years back, if it got cold enough for long enough, of flooding a part of the back yard and making a skating area. This cold spell we are now into would be a good candidate for that. Don't know if I'll do it though...hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violentweatherfan Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I was cleaning my car this morning and I noticed my car thermometer read 25 degrees, I cleaned of the roof and it fell to 10. I think it may have something to do with the car running. I noticed this also, but during the first cold shot, my car temp dropped 6° without snow cover (on the car) at night during an 8 min ride home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophisticated Skeptic Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 They make it sound like the Delaware hasn't been completely frozen over since Washington's Crossing. The river is modeled after the Rhine, where ice tends to form in jagged chunks as pictured, not in broad sheets as is more common on the Delaware. (However, it is speculated that the Delaware River really was frozen over as depicted because of the Little Ice Age that was occurring at the time.)Also, the Delaware at what is now called Washington Crossing is far narrower than the river depicted in the painting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Crossing_the_Delaware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluescat1 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I think it may have something to do with the car running. I noticed this also, but during the first cold shot, my car temp dropped 6° without snow cover (on the car) at night during an 8 min ride home. I think it has to do with the snow being an insulator. It was around 25 when the snow began to fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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