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January 2/3 Event - Disco., Nowcasting, and Obs.


wxmeddler

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this is such a tired logic -- as if the two aren't connected -- it's intellectually lazy and shows a complete lack of even a basic understanding of NWP

Alright DTK, keeping it simple not everyone works at NCEP or the EMC. The tired logic and complete misunderstanding of models should make it easy for you to make a map and then I'll make one, and we can see who interprets your models better.
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Alright DTK, keeping it simple not everyone works at NCEP or the EMC. The tired logic and complete misunderstanding of models should make it easy for you to make a map and then I'll make one, and we can see who interprets your models better.

Do it, show us your forecast

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Alright DTK, keeping it simple not everyone works at NCEP or the EMC. The tired logic and complete misunderstanding of models should make it easy for you to make a map and then I'll make one, and we can see who interprets your models better.

Why are you directing your response at me?

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The take here is at least the models aren't going backward. They are a little deeper, and a bit slower in the upper levels which doesn't hurt. The surface hasn't shown tremendous improvement but if you're talking about 0.1 vs 0.2 much of that isn't going to be known until it's over. If 1" to 2" makes you happy, I think there's still a good chance of that. Whatever trend there is is at least in our favor.

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Alright DTK, keeping it simple not everyone works at NCEP or the EMC. The tired logic and complete misunderstanding of models should make it easy for you to make a map and then I'll make one, and we can see who interprets your models better.

 

 

Why are you directing your response at me?

 

:lmao: -- sorry dtk -- guess he just assumed you're the bad guy -- 

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Why are you directing your response at me?

Well if you assume I'm misinterpreting the models thats a false assumption. Its not a hunch, its basic meteorology principles, not model principle. You expect the slp to be near the best baroclinicity on the eastern end of your h5 vort. Its very sharp. I wish that the models that agree on sharp h5 and show good results now snow-wise werent the NAM, its hires, the SREF, and the RGEM.
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Well I am in Cecil County Colora nowhere near Elkton about 540 feet elevation NW up near PA Line

and in December about 16 inches so I say bring another 8 thursday night. Yes Elkton does get

the shaft many times I will get 6 or more inches and a thirty min drive down

to Elkton a slushy inch.........

I can agree with this. I live in Lancaster but my office is in Cecil County and have seen many instances that Pythium describes.

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Well if you assume I'm misinterpreting the models thats a false assumption. Its not a hunch, its basic meteorology principles, not model principle. You expect the slp to be near the best baroclinicity on the eastern end of your h5 vort. Its very sharp. I wish that the models that agree on sharp h5 and show good results now snow-wise werent the NAM, its hires, the SREF, and the RGEM.

Psst, he didn't say that to you

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:) It is a good thing we have not weenied to the level of the NE subforum. When is the NAM being upgraded?. Thanks for all your input.

I would guess that it is slated for sometime this summer, though I haven't seen the implementation schedule/timeline.  The two big changes they are going to be implementing are

1) Move to hybrid EnVar (similar to GFS) initialization using the GFS/EnKF perturbations.  This should help with the large scale initialization

2) Physics.  I don't know the details but they have been playing around with convection to address some pretty egregious biases.  There are probably some changes to the microphysics and radiation as well, but I'd have to dig through the experimental change logs to find out (since I'm not in that branch).

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Well if you assume I'm misinterpreting the models thats a false assumption. Its not a hunch, its basic meteorology principles, not model principle. You expect the slp to be near the best baroclinicity on the eastern end of your h5 vort. Its very sharp. I wish that the models that agree on sharp h5 and show good results now snow-wise werent the NAM, its hires, the SREF, and the RGEM.

Reading is fundamental.  Look at who posted the comment before you reply.....

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Well if you assume I'm misinterpreting the models thats a false assumption. Its not a hunch, its basic meteorology principles, not model principle. You expect the slp to be near the best baroclinicity on the eastern end of your h5 vort. Its very sharp. I wish that the models that agree on sharp h5 and show good results now snow-wise werent the NAM, its hires, the SREF, and the RGEM.

f42.gif

 

where would you like the low to be? the slp is under the best DPVA -- i'm having trouble seeing any issues dynamically with this depiction?

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Psst, he didn't say that to you

It is all semantics DTK asked why he said that,and he was defending the GFS as all of us would our work. And UVV was explaining why he thought it was wrong, i don't see why this has blown up into an argument. Let 2 intelligent grown men discuss their differing thoughts.

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Hi Sandy -

It's a graphical depiction of the latest short range forecast models, in this case showing modeled snowfall, with the black line representing the mean value. Here's BWI output...take it with a giant grain of salt, as accuracy and verification of the srefs do not always translate to the sensible weather.

attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

 

Thank you so much 

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It is all semantics DTK asked why he said that,and he was defending the GFS as all of us would our work. And UVV was explaining why he thought it was wrong, i don't see why this has blown up into an argument. Let 2 intelligent grown men discuss their differing thoughts.

Don't be a dick I was trying to help the guy out by saying he was directing his response to the wrong person.

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Well if you assume I'm misinterpreting the models thats a false assumption. Its not a hunch, its basic meteorology principles, not model principle. You expect the slp to be near the best baroclinicity on the eastern end of your h5 vort. Its very sharp. I wish that the models that agree on sharp h5 and show good results now snow-wise werent the NAM, its hires, the SREF, and the RGEM.

I really didn't want to get dragged into this, but you really believe that the model doesn't adhere to the meterological principles that you cite?  Trust me, the model is based on fundamental governing equations and does not just place a surface low all willy nilly.  Not everything can be boiled down to, or represented by, a simple conceptual model.

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The take here is at least the models aren't going backward. They are a little deeper, and a bit slower in the upper levels which doesn't hurt. The surface hasn't shown tremendous improvement but if you're talking about 0.1 vs 0.2 much of that isn't going to be known until it's over. If 1" to 2" makes you happy, I think there's still a good chance of that. Whatever trend there is is at least in our favor.

I will be happy with 2 followed by Friday's cold. That's good enough for me. Anything more will be a bonus and anything less will only be slightly disappointing. Like you said the models haven't gone backwards and still may improve a tick. It will be tough forecast as always come tomorrow afternoon.

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I would guess that it is slated for sometime this summer, though I haven't seen the implementation schedule/timeline.  The two big changes they are going to be implementing are

1) Move to hybrid EnVar (similar to GFS) initialization using the GFS/EnKF perturbations.  This should help with the large scale initialization

2) Physics.  I don't know the details but they have been playing around with convection to address some pretty egregious biases.  There are probably some changes to the microphysics and radiation as well, but I'd have to dig through the experimental change logs to find out (since I'm not in that branch).

Great so for weenies such as myself we can hopefully have an accurate model next winter. If the NAM steps up to the GFS level i will be on the computer 24/7 next winter so it may actually be bad  :D . Thank for all the info.

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