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Winter 2013-14 Pattern Discussion II


buckeyefan1

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I enjoy electricity and heat too much for the 0Z GFS to come true...

The signs of a CAD have been pretty steady plus/minus a few runs. I feel sure the Euro will have something similiar, with two HP's floating around on the GFS ~ 2/8, I think the CAD areas should be ready for darkness.

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CMC looks icy for a bigger part of NC on 2/8...Cad also showing up in upstate SC and possibly parts of N. Ga.

 

EDIT:  It turns out to be nasty...A lot of qpf showing up on the 0z CMC

 

EDIT 2:  Looks to possibly start of as sn or ip in NC before going to zr.

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The 0Z GFS appears to leave the bulk of N GA a little above 32 for this entire CAD event fwiw. The 32 does make it to upstate SC.

It's all about the column at the time :)  That's the fun of it.  I've seen rain turn to ice, seen ice turn to rain, seen it pour rain until 4am, then the column sorts out, and bingo, sleet for inches :)  That's the fun of it, lol.  Aren't these storms as depicted too strong for us.  Don't we need them to mellow out some, to stop the waa from messing up the party.  Plus that's why they are running.  Better to have some smaller pulses coming out one right after the other, and keep the wheel spinning. So I'm thinking we want a cutoff ull to spit out energy, rather than the whole thing to come out.  T

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CMC looks icy for a bigger part of NC on 2/8...Cad also showing up in upstate SC and possibly parts of N. Ga.

EDIT: It turns out to be nasty...A lot of qpf showing up on the 0z CMC

EDIT 2: Looks to possibly start of as sn or ip in NC before going to zr.

Kind of like what models were originally hinting at a day or two ago. I don't want a devastating ice storm, but I love weather and winter weather. Anything other than rain is fascinating to me.
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Hmm.....interesting! I know which one I am rooting for. Here is part of GSP's long term from the overnight:

 

MODELS DIVERGE CONSIDERABLY IN REGARDS TO P-TYPE...TIMING OF THE
ONSET OF PRECIP...AND THE MAGNITUDE OF CAD FRIDAY.
THE GFS
INDICATES THAT A STRONG 1045+ MB HIGH WILL BUILD INTO THE NE STATES
BY FRI NIGHT AND UPGLIDE MOISTURE WILL OVERSPREAD THE REGION FRI
AFTERNOON IN RESPONSE TO SECONDARY SOUTHERN STREAM WAVE APPROACHING
FROM THE SW.
MEANWHILE...THE ECMWF SUGGESTS THAT RELATIVELY WEAKER
1030 MB HIGH PRESSURE WILL BUILD INTO THE NE ON FRI WITH
ISENTROPIC INDUCED PRECIP SPREADING OVER THE AREA BY MIDDAY ON FRI.

THE COLDER GFS SCENARIO HINTS WINERY MIX WILL OCCUR (POSSIBLY A MIX
OF SNOW AND SLEET) ACROSS ENTIRE CWA FRI NIGHT INTO SAT MORNING.
THE
WARMER ECMWF SUGGESTS SOLID LIQUID PRECIP WILL PERSIST THROUGHOUT
THE EVENT.
GIVEN THE HIGH UNCERTAINTY...HAVE INHERITED LOW END
CHANCE OF RAIN ACROSS THE REGION WITH FREEZING RAIN HIGHLIGHTING
NORTH OF I-40 CORRIDOR EARLY FRI MORNING AND FRI NIGHT. IF MODELS
TREND COLDER ON FRI/SAT...WE MAY ENCOUNTER A SIGNIFICANT WINTER
STORM DURING THIS PERIOD.

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Hmm.....interesting! I know which one I am rooting for. Here is part of GSP's long term from the overnight:

 

MODELS DIVERGE CONSIDERABLY IN REGARDS TO P-TYPE...TIMING OF THE

ONSET OF PRECIP...AND THE MAGNITUDE OF CAD FRIDAY. THE GFS

INDICATES THAT A STRONG 1045+ MB HIGH WILL BUILD INTO THE NE STATES

BY FRI NIGHT AND UPGLIDE MOISTURE WILL OVERSPREAD THE REGION FRI

AFTERNOON IN RESPONSE TO SECONDARY SOUTHERN STREAM WAVE APPROACHING

FROM THE SW. MEANWHILE...THE ECMWF SUGGESTS THAT RELATIVELY WEAKER

1030 MB HIGH PRESSURE WILL BUILD INTO THE NE ON FRI WITH

ISENTROPIC INDUCED PRECIP SPREADING OVER THE AREA BY MIDDAY ON FRI.

THE COLDER GFS SCENARIO HINTS WINERY MIX WILL OCCUR (POSSIBLY A MIX

OF SNOW AND SLEET) ACROSS ENTIRE CWA FRI NIGHT INTO SAT MORNING. THE

WARMER ECMWF SUGGESTS SOLID LIQUID PRECIP WILL PERSIST THROUGHOUT

THE EVENT. GIVEN THE HIGH UNCERTAINTY...HAVE INHERITED LOW END

CHANCE OF RAIN ACROSS THE REGION WITH FREEZING RAIN HIGHLIGHTING

NORTH OF I-40 CORRIDOR EARLY FRI MORNING AND FRI NIGHT. IF MODELS

TREND COLDER ON FRI/SAT...WE MAY ENCOUNTER A SIGNIFICANT WINTER

STORM DURING THIS PERIOD.

I'm hoping the gfs has had the better track record this winter.   was the gfs the one that picked up on this last storm?

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I'm hoping the gfs has had the better track record this winter.   was the gfs the one that picked up on this last storm?

 

No Euro picked it up first. It then lost it and then the GFS came on board, then the Euro came back on board. Pretty much like now but this setup is a little more tricky. Last one we had all the cold air we wanted to work with. This one is going to depend on the southern wave and high pressure to our north if it can get locked in. 

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No Euro picked it up first. It then lost it and then the GFS came on board, then the Euro came back on board. Pretty much like now but this setup is a little more tricky. Last one we had all the cold air we wanted to work with. This one is going to depend on the southern wave and high pressure to our north if it can get locked in. 

well I guess its good in a way we don't have to much cold air, it seems to push the storm to far south, maybe with the colder air just to our north the storm will tap in to the colder air giving us mostly snow.

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Thanks for posting Don. Just getting a chance to look at the meto output for KFQD off the 6 GFS
850's around 0 as the moisture comes in around HR168 and until HR 174, my location remains below 32 with .26". Then quick rise in temp to 42 at HR 174 (.55" total for that time stamp) then back down to below 32 at HR 177 then the temp rises again.

Talk about a roller coaster off the 6 gfs run.  When GSP is looking, it is a good thing!

Total would be 1.6" for the system as shown on this one run.

 

Hmm.....interesting! I know which one I am rooting for. Here is part of GSP's long term from the overnight:

 

MODELS DIVERGE CONSIDERABLY IN REGARDS TO P-TYPE...TIMING OF THE
ONSET OF PRECIP...AND THE MAGNITUDE OF CAD FRIDAY.
THE GFS
INDICATES THAT A STRONG 1045+ MB HIGH WILL BUILD INTO THE NE STATES
BY FRI NIGHT AND UPGLIDE MOISTURE WILL OVERSPREAD THE REGION FRI
AFTERNOON IN RESPONSE TO SECONDARY SOUTHERN STREAM WAVE APPROACHING
FROM THE SW.
MEANWHILE...THE ECMWF SUGGESTS THAT RELATIVELY WEAKER
1030 MB HIGH PRESSURE WILL BUILD INTO THE NE ON FRI WITH
ISENTROPIC INDUCED PRECIP SPREADING OVER THE AREA BY MIDDAY ON FRI.

THE COLDER GFS SCENARIO HINTS WINERY MIX WILL OCCUR (POSSIBLY A MIX
OF SNOW AND SLEET) ACROSS ENTIRE CWA FRI NIGHT INTO SAT MORNING.
THE
WARMER ECMWF SUGGESTS SOLID LIQUID PRECIP WILL PERSIST THROUGHOUT
THE EVENT.
GIVEN THE HIGH UNCERTAINTY...HAVE INHERITED LOW END
CHANCE OF RAIN ACROSS THE REGION WITH FREEZING RAIN HIGHLIGHTING
NORTH OF I-40 CORRIDOR EARLY FRI MORNING AND FRI NIGHT. IF MODELS
TREND COLDER ON FRI/SAT...WE MAY ENCOUNTER A SIGNIFICANT WINTER
STORM DURING THIS PERIOD.

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Thanks for posting Don. Just getting a chance to look at the meto output for KFQD off the 6 GFS

850's around 0 as the moisture comes in around HR168 and until HR 174, my location remains below 32 with .26". Then quick rise in temp to 42 at HR 174 (.55" total for that time stamp) then back down to below 32 at HR 177 then the temp rises again.

Talk about a roller coaster off the 6 gfs run.  When GSP is looking, it is a good thing!

Total would be 1.6" for the system as shown on this one run.

 

I have a feeling it's going to be another interesting week of model watching for the weenies!

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That 06Z image at hour 174 is quite ominous, but awesome!!  Nice 1042 mb High over NE, isobars buckling down the eastern side of the Apps, classic CAD signature!

 

4zADne6.gif

 

 

Oh, and I'm still confused about NCHighCountryWx.  His response to mine and NCSnow's questions was a little less than illuminating.  I think it raised more questions than it answered.

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Soundings are useless at this range. There is no way to nail down who will see the freezing rain as opposed to sleet/snow. Just looking at the big picture it would suggest mostly a freezing rain and sleet scenario possibly beginning as snow for the favored CAD areas.

CAD, the GFS and CMC take the low west of the Apps, intact, the best I can tell. It seems like the strength of the wedge would influence the primary to die, with secondary development along the coast somewhere. Is that a wrong conclusion, or are the models maybe either not seeing the strength of the wedging well or perhaps the track of the primary cuts too far west to be influenced by the wedge? HP does appear to scoot out, allowing the precip to turn to rain, verbatim...not that it will actually work out that way.

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That 06Z image at hour 174 is quite ominous, but awesome!! Nice 1042 mb High over NE, isobars buckling down the eastern side of the Apps, classic CAD signature!

4zADne6.gif

Oh, and I'm still confused about NCHighCountryWx. His response to mine and NCSnow's questions was a little less than illuminating. I think it raised more questions than it answered.

Just an obs about that map above, it looks just like the flow/ moisture transport from TX from the 2005 ice storm. I remember watching the radar and the trajectory and strength looke the same as above. Just a thought
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The 6z GFS also weakens the SE ridge and allows the moisture to cut east faster and pop a weak LP over the SE.  The pacific pattern does not teleconnect to a SE ridge.. I expect it to further weaken.  Hopefully we end up with a Miller A sitting in the gulf. 

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Wow, I think Robert's Facebook posts this morning lend credence to what you are seeing, as well:

 

 

late week pattern will confuse models. Strong confluence holds in East, big High holds, overrunning locks in low lev cold and N.winds

 

And

 

 

5H confluence Northeast, and closed ridge Yukon/Alaska cud open door for cutoff moving more south than shown next weekend. 12z may catch

 

That 500mb height chart you posted for 1/96 looks eerily similar to this current setup.  Nice find!

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