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Winter 2013-14 Pattern Discussion II


buckeyefan1

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Larry, your inbox on here is full and I can't get you a message.

 

To add weather input; I made a map based off the 12z Euro using a blend of the 850 & 2m temps and it looks nothing at all like the messed up snowfall maps.  I'd post it here; but it uses pay images.

 

Either way, the threat of ZR is very real on the 12z Euro..  Through GSP, Central NC (even CLT), Atlanta, Lots of TN.

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We have been fortunate to have the -WPO to set up all the Arctic highs over land to supply much colder Air. That coupled with the +TNH pattern making the pattern wash, rinse and repeat. What I think has finally shifted the orientation of the trough is the MJO getting into a favorable phase of 7 and eventually 8, 1 and 2.

Is the MJO a factor? A few days ago, it looked like some models had it going into Phase 6 and others had it going into Phase 7 before heading back into the COD. Now, it looks like most guidances keeps it in or near the COD. I haven't seen anything take a strong wave through Phases 1-8. I was just looking at the diagram on the CPC site, so I may not be looking at the same data you are, though....

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Ok. If it really isn't a snow storm like the Euro shows, is there still an ice threat? Shouldn't we be looking at that?

Well, the Euro does seem to show a fairly significant snow event (2-6") for some of us before the switchover to a catastrophic ice storm. It's kind of reminiscent of December 2002 in that regard. This sort of setup can yield a front end thump of snow before the changeover to sleet and/or freezing rain.

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Well, the Euro does seem to show a fairly significant snow event (2-6") for some of us before the switchover to a catastrophic ice storm. It's kind of reminiscent of December 2002 in that regard. This sort of setup can yield a front end thump of snow before the changeover to sleet and/or freezing rain.

We should get back ontrack and talk about that. It might not be snow like the Euro shows, but it does look like a big storm on the Euro that should be followed. And it could always change and get colder for snow, since that seems what evveryone is focused on. And if some folks do get snow with ice on top that is going to be a mess.

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We should get back ontrack and talk about that. It might not be snow like the Euro shows, but it does look like a big storm on the Euro that should be followed. And it could always change and get colder for snow, since that seems what evveryone is focused on. And if some folks do get snow with ice on top that is going to be a mess.

The euro does have it cold enough for all winter precip, We will see what happens... 

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larry who is gvl and who is gsp.

 

I am in greenville and gsp is the airport here.  I assume  gvl, greenville nc? and gsp greenville spartanburg.

may be talking about gainesville ga, in strong cads (like the one being discussed....actually anything over about 1040 is strong for this area to get in on the action usually)

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thanks guys.....\not that I am happy about being "creamed"

lol - well that infamous LC storm that has been mentioned was wild and a similar set up. got stronger as we approached.  ne ga did get creamed. and went through gainesville towards i think gwinnet.  didnt have a smart phone then.   no power for about 3 days here (so no internet either ugh haha).  i would rather not have all the trees come down again, but have to say that was one heck of an ice storm, probably one of the top 3 i had seen (i am in my 40s so have seen a few lol)

 

larry - no worries here :) granted would probably rather not have an inch or more of ice, but i dont mind ice storms (as long as you make sure you keep them at or under .50" haha).  i am in the weird "anything falling frozen in winter" beats rain group haha

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So we have one biggie showing a possible snow/ice storm, another wants to be close.  We have bogus maps showing 4 inches in Atlanta.   Folks are seeing those maps.  Well, when they get two inches of ice they might be paying a bit more attention.  And if it's 2 inches of rain, or nothing, they'll see the fun of predicting winter weather in the south.  They will learn that models mesmerizer,  and seduce, and can't always be trusted.  If they are paying attention.  I'd hate to have to ride the potential for then next month as a met/ or city planner :)  Of course, the businessmen are happy to hear it will be warm.  While the populous goes rumor crazy, lol.  Man, I love this winter!!  Human drama, and weather.  A heady mix.  T

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let the public experience the sheer joy and then deep despair as the models change from run to run lol.  CAD ice storms here can, and quite a few times have, started with a pretty good burst of snow then a lot of ice (its not too bad, keeps the snow around lol).  i remember a few times a while back that dogs could walk on the ice and not break through to the snow underneath. wild.

 

i know "overdue" isnt scientific, but i have seen a few others in the cad areas say that and it is true.  until the dec 05 one we would average usually a couple a year with less than .25 and maybe one every year every other year .25 or a little more.  not complaining of all the snow since then, of course, but statistically we probably are due for one.  and with this years set up (monster strong arctic highs moving in and juicy storms moving across) i wouldnt be surprised if someone does get a lot of ice.  the last couple of years have had moist storms but just not the cold air. so its only a matter of time before things hook up right and BAM

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So we have one biggie showing a possible snow/ice storm, another wants to be close.  We have bogus maps showing 4 inches in Atlanta.   Folks are seeing those maps.  Well, when they get two inches of ice they might be paying a bit more attention.  And if it's 2 inches of rain, or nothing, they'll see the fun of predicting winter weather in the south.  They will learn that models mesmerizer,  and seduce, and can't always be trusted.  If they are paying attention.  I'd hate to have to ride the potential for then next month as a met/ or city planner :)  Of course, the businessmen are happy to hear it will be warm.  While the populous goes rumor crazy, lol.  Man, I love this winter!!  Human drama, and weather.  A heady mix.  T

 

Social media like Twitter and Facebook are becomming more and more of a breeding ground for misinformation every day.  Although some good info can be found; those outside the weather watching world don't understand that.  There's already panic going on in ATL for the chance of snow.. yet they are really under the gun for a possible ZR which would be much worse.

 

I can't imagine what would happen to ATL if they got .50+ QPF as ice with the crazy stuff that just happened down there the other day.

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Social media like Twitter and Facebook are becomming more and more of a breeding ground for misinformation every day.  Although some good info can be found; those outside the weather watching world don't understand that.  There's already panic going on in ATL for the chance of snow.. yet they are really under the gun for a possible ZR which would be much worse.

 

I can't imagine what would happen to ATL if they got .50+ QPF as ice with the crazy stuff that just happened down there the other day.

Shawn, I can only hope the chance of snow will alert them that something might happen.  A really bad ice storm in the city now will be like a stick of dyno in a barrel.  Power poles down and sparking on every street, ten trees down every square block.  It's unbelievable...and now it's amplified by all the new people.  And none of them have chainsaws.  If I was living back up there again, I have two good saws, a good generator, lots of canned goods, water, and a way to heat it all up, and lots of candles, and lanterns.  In 73  my  family took care of themselves with a sterno stove, and a fire place for over a week :)  And folks in Apts. were in a terrible way.  Stores empty as far as you could walk..when the power lines quit snapping.  I'll watch with interest how Atl handles something like that without any preparation of the masses whatsoever.  Not even the occasional reminder of what can happen.  But I keep forgetting, it'll probably be warm.  T

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@189, right before truncation, you can tell the 0z gfs has a huge storm.  My only concern is what is going to stop it from cutting inland?

 

Edit: Yep it was a lakes cutter.  You could tell on the 5h that this would never make it.

Yeah, the high is 3Mbs weaker and there is no 50/50. Suppression will be difficult.

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@189, right before truncation, you can tell the 0z gfs has a huge storm.  My only concern is what is going to stop it from cutting inland?

 

Edit: Yep it was a lakes cutter.  You could tell on the 5h that this would never make it.

 

Can't be a lake cutter with the HP overhead.  Only after truncation does it decide to suddenly pull the HP out and shove it north.

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This is such a huge shift in the GFS that I do not really buy it. We are in a very difficult pattern for the models right now. I still think a lakes cutter is a lower chance scenario based on earlier ensemble data.

 

I agree Cheez...At this point what I take away from the 0z gfs is the storm is still there.

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