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Winter 2013-14 Pattern Discussion II


buckeyefan1

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IMHO - big difference between 850 and 500 and surface. It looks like a SW flow to me. SW flow into the SE tends warm. If you want to educate me, please do, politely, please!

 

Happy New Year.

Big daddy, that's about as non a warm look as you can get. A 1040 high in WV, northerly winds at the surface, and near -10 850s doth not a cold day make. This is for the upper SE. Down in Gainsville, I don't know what the daily climate records are, but you have got to be below average with that setup.

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I'm never afraid or ashamed to admit a mistake.

 

It just looked to me like an upper air SW flow was developing and that would perhaps bring warmer temps, into GA, SC, and up the NC coast.

 

This was not an IMBY comment; just was a thought.

 

Pardon me .....

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An airmass the likes that we are about to get (single digit/teens air temp, -10 to -20 dewpoints, high 1040's high pressure to our north)...don't exactly scour out immediately...

 

 

The fact that the Euro tries to switch the 500mb flow immediately to southwest after the delivery of the coldest air could actually result in some warm air advection precip...infact the precip maps just past Day 8 shows light precip returns across the Southern Apps region, like QC mentioned a few posts ago...these maps prove that.

 

 

ecmwf_slp_precip_nc_35.png

 

 

 

 

ecmwf_uvz500_nc_35.png

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I'm never afraid or ashamed to admit a mistake.

It just looked to me like an upper air SW flow was developing and that would perhaps bring warmer temps, into GA, SC, and up the NC coast.

This was not an IMBY comment; just was a thought.

Pardon me .....

I think a SW flow is what we want over this monster cold high pressure for some wintry precip?
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IMHO - big difference between 850 and 500 and surface. It looks like a SW flow to me. SW flow into the SE tends warm. If you want to educate me, please do, politely, please!

 

Happy New Year.

 

It depends on what you are looking for.  If it's just cold, then yeah, you want to see a northerly component to the wind flow in the lower and mid-levels.  For winter storms, outside of strong northern stream diving systems, all good southern winter storms have some type of southerly component to the wind flow at the lower and mid levels, with cold NE flow at the surface.

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That is a lie. the euro maps clearly show areas of below zero minimums in the NC Mtns.

You may want to go back and check your data sources. You may be looking at an older run or looking at dew points.

I personally reviewed the work from our team and the 12z ECMWF has no sub zero F surface in NC this run 12z 01JAN14.

I also reviewed Dr Maue's graphics on Weatherbell Premium and they also agree. His graphics are very detailed but should not be posted.

The flow is too fast above our latitude.

Have a blessed day.

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I think a SW flow is what we want over this monster cold high pressure for some wintry precip?

 

I can't disagree. Unfortunately this is not a conference call where voice inflections can be heard. I said warmer. I did not say warm or hot or torch.

 

My point being, I think the Euro is suggesting a relaxation in the "cold".

 

What that leads to for short term precip or longer term trends are my dual interests.

 

Sorry for any confusion.

 

I'm rooting for some winter precip (not here but up the Interstate a ways) as I have 5 days off coming up and and hoping for a journey.

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An airmass the likes that we are about to get (single digit/teens air temp, -10 to -20 dewpoints, high 1040's high pressure to our north)...don't exactly scour out immediately...

 

 

The fact that the Euro tries to switch the 500mb flow immediately to southwest after the delivery of the coldest air could actually result in some warm air advection precip...infact the precip maps just past Day 8 shows light precip returns across the Southern Apps region, like QC mentioned a few posts ago...these maps prove that.

 

 

ecmwf_slp_precip_nc_35.png

 

 

 

 

  You realize it, but in case there's any confusion among the readers, that precip. east of TN is clearly very light and temp.'s are warming quickly in all layers of the atmosphere. About all that may do is give a few spots light freezing rain for a short time per this run verbatim. This is precip. accompanying warming on the backside and isn't coming in in tandem with the cold, especially like yesterday's 18Z GFS showed for part of the deep south. The Euro's general setup is not conducive imo to decent wintry precip. in the SE. The cold is too dominating, which is typical for Arctic air plunges. Subsequently, it warms rapidly on the backside of the high.

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 Time to stop.

I was going to say you are onto a zrain look, but Larry beat me to it :)  Plenty of time for both the models to screw it up a dozen times over, lol.  Meanwhile I'm in the 40's, have light rain, and haven't seen the sun in at least 5 days.  The only thing better in my book would be colder, and sleet :)  I guess I'm a simpleton, but I like it to look and feel like winter, even it there is nothing frozen around, and cloudy, coat weather suits me fine.  T

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i cant forecast the future i dont even try to in fact, that is the point, some here no matter what the models say will post too warm, too cold, too dry, or whatever anti possible snow claim they can make......imo that stuff is WISHcasting and not based on any models or logic....anybody making claims about a storm several days away such as too dry or too warm are indeed proclaiming they KNOW the future and again i do NOT.

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wow, so the cold it too dominating BUT very easy to push out of the way.......does that really make sense

 

It's not about "pushing out of the way" - it's about a pattern that is too progressive with nothing slow the hyperactive flow. Everything is getting out of the way easily right now.

 

Yes - no -NAO and no 50 - 50 block.

 

These would certainly help to slow the transient shots of cold.

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In Jan 1994 we had back to back arctic blasts fairly close together, but with strong warming and rain in between

 

Maybe that's what will happen again, because the Euro ensembles through d9-15 are an absolute torch on the eastern third of the country, below is the 10 day ensemble mean, but days 11-15 actually get worse if anything.  The 0C 850 line is in Canada..

post-2311-0-61773200-1388611406_thumb.pn

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Weren't the Euro ensembles showing an east coast trough and blocking the other day? The models are just horrible this year outside of 5 days...if even that far out.

 

They really are man.  In fact, have either the cold OR warm progs verified consistently?  I suppose it depends on where you live.  That CFC map showing above average temps has been really wrong for most of the season in this area.

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They really are man. In fact, have either the cold OR warm progs verified consistently? I suppose it depends on where you live. That CFC map showing above average temps has been really wrong for most of the season in this area.

I don't think so...at least usually not to the extreme we've seen in the progs. I didn't have any confidence in the blocking that was showing up the other day, and I don't have any confidence in a full blown extended torch now. A transient milder period, maybe. It's not going to be frigid for a long period without blocking. The Pacific won't allow us to torch, as long as the -EPO remains/returns. So variable is the best way to go, with the "thread the needle" option being the best chance for snow, as has been the case.

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Big difference between the gfs ensembles and euro ensembles in the long range.

Yeah we aren't going to see what's going to happen in the LR until this cold at least comes down into the US. The models were garbage even seeing this cold far out and had a ridge during this time period. Garbage!

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While not 1985 cold... I still think the Euro might have been pretty close with those single digits outside the mountains into the NC Piedmont and upstate SC. With the dewpoints being advertised and calm winds I see no problems reaching single digits. I saw some negative teen dewpoint temps, ouch, where's the humidifier!

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