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December 21-22nd Winter Storm Part 2


Chicago Storm

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Difference is this is December and it's been quite cold. Don't have insolation or warm ground temps to bail us out.

 

 

Honestly I am a bit surprised how many NWS offices jumped immediately with the 12z runs, really only DTX and a couple others kept things in check by mentioning that it can correct back some. Sadly with the 2 pieces going through data sparse regions of the network is just going to complicate things even more.

The best two posts of the day.

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Why would you say that?

No real solid evidence, but from what I've seen areas of higher elevation are much more prone to significant ice events, a lot of that can be attributed to the lake keeping areas below the escarpment around the Golden Horseshoe warm enough to limit overall ice accretion. You do mention a good point though, with the snow pack in place warm ground temps shouldn't be as much of an issue. 0z runs will definitely be interesting. 

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No real solid evidence, but from what I've seen areas of higher elevation are much more prone to significant ice events, a lot of that can be attributed to the lake keeping areas below the escarpment around the Golden Horseshoe warm enough to limit overall ice accretion. You do mention a good point though, with the snow pack in place warm ground temps shouldn't be as much of an issue. 0z runs will definitely be interesting. 

 

 

People make too much of a big deal about the escarpment honestly.

 

Well, in this case, the coldest air is going to right at the surface. As you gain elevation, temps will warm. So being on top of the escarpment will be a detriment rather than a help. That's why a place like Ottawa is so prone to heavy icing. It's in a valley.

 

I guess speaking strictly in terms of Hamilton, I'd rather be away from the NE winds off the warm Lk water, but I'm thinking Flamborough would be the best spot (more limited lake influence + less elevation).

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Well, in this case, the coldest air is going to right at the surface. As you gain elevation, temps will warm. So being on top of the escarpment will be a detriment rather than a help. That's why a place like Ottawa is so prone to heavy icing. It's in a valley.

 

I guess speaking strictly in terms of Hamilton, I'd rather be away from the NE winds off the warm Lk water, but I'm thinking Flamborough would be the best spot (more limited lake influence + less elevation).

Another good point SSC, I'm just getting handle on models (have been working 12+ hour days for the past week). Noticed the 12z GEM had 4-5cm of ice accretion for a lot of Southern Ontario....

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With regards to snowmelt, temps are only one part of the equation, you've also got to factor in dewpoints. If you've got 40 degrees with a 15 degree dewpoint, then you'll melt slower than 35 degrees with a 35 degree dewpoint. Get dewpoints above 40 and snow disappears rather rapidly. 

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I think here we'll touch 50F. I'm going with over 4" for IND. Going to be a crazy temp profile across IN.

I'll take the under on 4" storm total for LAF. Though I guess that image does include Thursday and Friday's rains. Still, under.

Also going to go way over on my current p&c forecast high temps for Saturday and Sunday.

Saturday: Rain. The rain could be heavy at times. High near 43. Chance of precipitation is 90%. New precipitation amounts between a half and three quarters of an inch possible.

Sunday: Rain likely. Cloudy, with a high near 42. Chance of precipitation is 60%.

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Honestly I am a bit surprised how many NWS offices jumped immediately with the 12z runs, really only DTX and a couple others kept things in check by mentioning that it can correct back some. Sadly with the 2 pieces going through data sparse regions of the network is just going to complicate things even more.

We have to wait until the northern stream is sampled.   The better half just got home, talking about potential flooding, and heavy rain all day Sunday.  So now, she is all worried about the basement, the backyard, and the stairwell to the basement walk-out, which I have to clear out.  She heard up to 5" of rain for Sunday.  So, I tried to tell her all solutions to this are still on the table......... I still have to clean out the stairwell.    :thumbsdown:

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very close to punting this one...

 

1: the antecedent air mass is junk

2: southerly 850/700 vectors are incredible, even GHD with a real deal antecedent arctic airmass saw over performing WAA

3: the northern stream energy is weak...we aren't talking about a major arctic front. Grasping for straws talking point.

4. neg tilt troughs with a wide open gulf flow and east coast ridge always cut hard.

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