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But do you trust them?

They match up with the current pattern and have been pretty good through Week 3 the last couple of weeks. There is good reason to believe that they have a handle on the pattern. Many will naysay based on a few short observations, but they are useful tool when in alignment with the pattern and have consistency.

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The new Euro weeklies from last night are very supportive of a cold pattern over the next 3 weeks...moreso than previous runs with little evidence of any warmth from the SE ridge especially week 2 and 3 extending out to Jan 20th...

Good to hear, it's nice to have growing support for colder weather in the not so distant future.

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They match up with the current pattern and have been pretty good through Week 3 the last couple of weeks. There is good reason to believe that they have a handle on the pattern. Many will naysay based on a few short observations, but they are useful tool when in alignment with the pattern and have consistency.

Thanks,you should post here more often.Always good to here a mets perspective on things to come for the Valley.

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But do you trust them?

This is an interesting question, BTW....Trust in a weather model of any kind? Depends on the level of detail you are seeking, I suppose. Considering what we do here, we have to get an idea of what is coming over the next few weeks to a month or so...so we keep a close eye on this and the CFS and use them when we have confidence...they are not deterministic and you can't use them for any level of detail but generalizations can be made and actions can be taken on those if we feel they fit what we are looking for. Most people hate the weeklies for correctly sniffing out the sustained warmth over the last two winters and they even did a good job in signalling the cold spring pattern last year...Can they be way off? Of course...but it seems with all the other signs out there this week that they can be "trusted" for what use they are.

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This is an interesting question, BTW....Trust in a weather model of any kind? Depends on the level of detail you are seeking, I suppose. Considering what we do here, we have to get an idea of what is coming over the next few weeks to a month or so...so we keep a close eye on this and the CFS and use them when we have confidence...they are not deterministic and you can't use them for any level of detail but generalizations can be made and actions can be taken on those if we feel they fit what we are looking for. Most people hate the weeklies for correctly sniffing out the sustained warmth over the last two winters and they even did a good job in signalling the cold spring pattern last year...Can they be way off? Of course...but it seems with all the other signs out there this week that they can be "trusted" for what use they are.

Thanks

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Robert posted an update on Facebook for WxSouth.  Also, the 12z GFS looks promising to say the least.  Will be interesting to see the 12z Euro.  You all will have to keep me updated as I'll be on the road until later this evening.  Excellent disco today.  Thanks to Mr. Bob for adding his thoughts.  Very interesting comments about the Euro weeklies - learned some things there.

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It's been a while since we've saw this even advertised on the models. 12z had lows of 0-5 degrees basically north of I-40 with state wide, lasting snow pack in it's extended. A thing of beauty. Even in the snowy winters of 2009-10 and 2010-11, it didn't get frigid. In the past, lasting snow pack wasn't uncommon here, nor was 0-10 below type cold. It went below 0 about every other year here  for most of my life. I Think I've only been below 0 twice in the 2000s. It also wasn't uncommon for snow to stay packed, even on the secondary roads, with the sun out, for days at a time. That'd have a good shot of happening again with how the 12z looked today.

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It's been a while since we've saw this even advertised on the models. 12z had lows of 0-5 degrees basically north of I-40 with state wide, lasting snow pack in it's extended. A thing of beauty. Even in the snowy winters of 2009-10 and 2010-11, it didn't get frigid. In the past, lasting snow pack wasn't uncommon here, nor was 0-10 below type cold. It went below 0 about every other year here for most of my life. I Think I've only been below 0 twice in the 2000s. It also wasn't uncommon for snow to stay packed, even on the secondary roads, with the sun out, for days at a time. That'd have a good shot of happening again with how the 12z looked today.

I know that below zero weather is very rare here in the valley, but to my knowledge it hasn't happened here in my lifetime, and I am 25 years old. Apparently the 80's were just a better decade for subzero cold.
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I know that below zero weather is very rare here in the valley, but to my knowledge it hasn't happened here in my lifetime, and I am 25 years old. Apparently the 80's were just a better decade for subzero cold.

The 70's and mid 80's it happened I froze in it. We can only hope we see a 1976 or 85 winter, the 60's were also good although I myself was to little to remember very much. Anyway it's going to get colder I do believe that.

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The 70's and mid 80's it happened I froze in it. We can only hope we see a 1976 or 85 winter, the 60's were also good although I myself was to little to remember very much. Anyway it's going to get colder I do believe that.

Like this pic i posted on the GFS ens,the MJO is in  7,Pacific.The Euro esm keeps backing off the cold and the 12z Euro esm brings the torch in the east and colder out W.You won't see the extreme cold in the east.

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I am in northwest tenn not the east. I am not expecting extreme cold, in fact it's harder to get snow in extreme cold. I was talking about winters of past and that type of cold and snow are rare around here, but still yeah I think it's going to be a cold start to January. I don't think we will see exteme cold like them winters but cold and certainly not a torch.In fact I think tennessee is going to have a great chance at seeing snow the first week of January.

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I cannot emphasize enough...the models are going to be all over the place until the new pattern sets in. If it gets warm, no big deal. We almost always have an event to tack. Focus on the pattern. Now to be fair, the pattern this winter has not been great for measurable snow....but I have seen more flakes than average up to this point. I think the trough holds, but almost all forecasters I have read for this region warn that after mid-Jan all bets are off. With it being the coldest climo time of year slightly above normal is not all bad. My money is on the Euro weeklies. They were a beast last year.

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I am in northwest tenn not the east. I am not expecting extreme cold, in fact it's harder to get snow in extreme cold. I was talking about winters of past and that type of cold and snow are rare around here, but still yeah I think it's going to be a cold start to January. I don't think we will see exteme cold like them winters but cold and certainly not a torch.In fact I think tennessee is going to have a great chance at seeing snow the first week of January.

 

I cannot emphasize enough...the models are going to be all over the place until the new pattern sets in. If it gets warm, no big deal. We almost always have an event to tack. Focus on the pattern. Now to be fair, the pattern this winter has not been great for snow....but I have seen more flakes than average up to this point. I think the trough holds, but almost all forecasters I have read for this region warn that after mid-Jan all bets are off. With it being the coldest climo time of year slightly above normal is not all bad. My money is on the Euro weeklies. They were a beast last year.

No pob man,by all means didnt mean to call you out,no one talks here..lol

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Like this pic i posted on the GFS ens,the MJO is in 7,Pacific.The Euro esm keeps backing off the cold and the 12z Euro esm brings the torch in the east and colder out W.You won't see the extreme cold in the east.

Are you confusing the control with the eps mean? I see a warm up to normal for two days this weekend. After its back below normal as the blocking that's just getting started starts to work its magic. Euro ensembles show a positive pna, negative ao thru the run with the nao going negative slightly by day 12.
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The pattern on modeling will likely be laden with error in the coming weeks. We have a small coastal potential on some modeling that doesn't even show on others. This is within 5 days. If models can't agree on something that close, we can't possibly expect them to lock in on a pattern to produce snow/ice day 7 and beyond.

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No pob man,by all means didnt mean to call you out,no one talks here..lol

Did not feel called out at all. Generally, I talk a lot in the banter thread and stick to wx here. It's all good. As for the pattern, let's see how tomorrow rolls. Until the Atlantic changes, I think it will be tough to maintain cold in the East...but it is looking somewhat better relatively speaking.

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I cannot emphasize enough...the models are going to be all over the place until the new pattern sets in. If it gets warm, no big deal. We almost always have an event to tack. Focus on the pattern. Now to be fair, the pattern this winter has not been great for measurable snow....but I have seen more flakes than average up to this point. I think the trough holds, but almost all forecasters I have read for this region warn that after mid-Jan all bets are off. With it being the coldest climo time of year slightly above normal is not all bad. My money is on the Euro weeklies. They were a beast last year.

Believe your wrong here.The MJO on the GFS ens. Has been stuck on 7,that has nothing to do with other than seasonal weather for us.

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