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December 17th Clipper Potential


Radders

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Hoping to get into some of the "heavier" banding tommorow as the clipper hits the coast. But your right there may be some localized warning level totals (5" or more) but nothing that should warrant county wide WSW

 

5" in 12 hours is not warning criteria.  6" is WSW criteria here.

 

Forecasts of 3 - 6" (which is not the current forecast) are also usually treated as an advisory.  They might go with a winter storm warning in that situation if they thought there would be widespread 6" totals and/or unusually high impact was expected.

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SREF PLUMES RANGE FROM <1 INCH SNOW TO ALMOST 7 INCHES WITH A
MIDPOINT AROUND 4 INCHES. THIS SEEMS A BIT HIGH GIVEN THE HIGHER QPF
FIELDS IN THE NAM. WILL SIDE WITH RFC/WPC QPF AND GO WITH 1/4-1/3
INCH LIQUID EQUIVALENT...AND RESULTS IN 2-4 INCHES SNOWFALL ON
TUESDAY. THIS MATCHES UP WELL WITH WPC WINTER WEATHER GUIDANCE FOR
THE AREA AS WELL. CONFIDENCE IS HIGH THAT SNOW ACCUMULATIONS WILL
TOP OFF AT 2-4 INCHES...AND WINTER WEATHER ADVISORIES WILL BE
NEEDED FOR THE AREA. CONFIDENCE IS LOW IN THE POTENTIAL FOR WINTER
STORM WARNING LEVEL SNOWFALL.

 

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The Euro is the furtherst N , its the Warmest and doesnt match up with  other guidance .

 I would dismiss it , but i think its too warm . The second piece Flys thru DC Balt area and straight on out .

 

Still thnk the Euro is 1 to 3 accross the area

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The Euro is the furtherst N , its the Warmest and doesnt match up with  other guidance .

 I would dismiss it , but i think its too warm . The second piece Flys thru DC Balt area and straight on out .

 

Still thnk the Euro is 1 to 3 accross the area

Why would you dismiss it for? Because you don't like what it shows?

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The Euro is the furtherst N , its the Warmest and doesnt match up with  other guidance .

 I would dismiss it , but i think its too warm . The second piece Flys thru DC Balt area and straight on out .

 

Still thnk the Euro is 1 to 3 accross the area

 

This is probably one of those events where the meso models and higher resolution models are probably what we should follow, but I'll still go with 2-4".

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Why would you dismiss it for? Because you don't like what it shows?

Nah  ,  RGEM NAM GFS all colder and wetter     ,  only Consensus , if the other models rally to it , then ok

but why should i buy buy it because i like the model . 

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All the other models are more south and colder.

It's possible that the clipper is too far north on this run and it could be further south, but you can't just dismiss the idea that it could be too warm near the coast for snow. We have very little room for error-if the system is over or north of us, it's rain-guaranteed. We need it to preferably be 30 miles or more south of us to keep the warm ocean air away. I guess it's a good sign though that the Euro is the furthest north by far and hasn't shown a lot of consistency over the last few runs.

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It should have said I WOULDNT  dismiss it , just re read what i wrote - I still thnk its  wrong , its outside the other models guidance

and I never use the Euro for surface temps .

 

Could the S SHORE mix sure, but that happens in almost every marginal storm .

Think the rest of the Area is fine , considering the Euro is the wamest and still has the 0 line through the City

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It should have said I WOULDNT  dismiss it , just re read what i wrote - I still thnk its  wrong , its outside the other models guidance

and I never use the Euro for surface temps .

 

Could the S SHORE mix sure, but that happens in almost every marginal storm .

Think the rest of the Area is fine , considering the Euro is the wamest and still has the 0 line through the City

 

Euro has been shaky so far since Nov. for our area at least.  Missed by a reasonable margin on timing/temp profiles the past few storms.  While the Euro could prove itself correct, the fact that there's a general consensus on the other models far enough away from what it's showing to see a difference, does lead to some caution.

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SREF PLUMES RANGE FROM <1 INCH SNOW TO ALMOST 7 INCHES WITH A

MIDPOINT AROUND 4 INCHES. THIS SEEMS A BIT HIGH GIVEN THE HIGHER QPF

FIELDS IN THE NAM. WILL SIDE WITH RFC/WPC QPF AND GO WITH 1/4-1/3

INCH LIQUID EQUIVALENT...AND RESULTS IN 2-4 INCHES SNOWFALL ON

TUESDAY. THIS MATCHES UP WELL WITH WPC WINTER WEATHER GUIDANCE FOR

THE AREA AS WELL. CONFIDENCE IS HIGH THAT SNOW ACCUMULATIONS WILL

TOP OFF AT 2-4 INCHES...AND WINTER WEATHER ADVISORIES WILL BE

NEEDED FOR THE AREA. CONFIDENCE IS LOW IN THE POTENTIAL FOR WINTER

STORM WARNING LEVEL SNOWFALL.

 

 

 

You do know this is from about 4 am this morning, way before today's 12Z models came out don't you? 

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The euro is not rain

It may be a little too warm for its QPF/isobar depiction, which is sagged to the south of Long Island, but as it is it's definitely cutting it close along the shores if that map is correct (I don't have access to any soundings). Northern NYC/Long Island and definitely anywhere interior are fine.

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It may be a little too warm for its QPF/isobar depiction, which is sagged to the south of Long Island, but as it is it's definitely cutting it close along the shores if that map is correct (I don't have access to any soundings). Northern NYC/Long Island and definitely anywhere interior are fine.

 

 

You need to look at hour 24. Not hour 30.

Hour 24, NYC is in the mid 20s.

The immediate south shore coast of LI, always struggles in these types of situations. I doubt NYC and 90% of it's boroughs rains at all. Maybe drizzle for the last 30 mins.

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Latest SREF's are a bit north...mostly NNJ gets the best action.

 

May I also add...this will be the second time this month (twice in one week) of having new snowfall on top of previously fallen snow. Very uncommon for this neck of the woods.

Southern end of .25 line looks to be along I-195....about the same as 09z.  Biggest difference is this run is producing additional measurable (.1) thru central and southern NJ with second impulse Tuesday evening, the 09z run had virtually nothing.

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Anybody who thinks a WSW will be issued is hallucinating. This is a 2-4" event to the coast with locally more under best lift/ banding as it hits the coast.

 

i never understand why people are always so preoccupied with whether or not WSW or WWA will be issued, when we always essentially know what they're (upton) expecting via maps and discussions on the NOAA site.

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