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December 14/15 winter storm threat


Typhoon Tip

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ORH_wxman, on 11 Dec 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:snapback.png

One thing that sticks out on the GFS is how damned cold the sfc is...Ryan mentioned it earlier. But its kind of weird (and prob a flag) to see the sfc so cold on the GFS like that. When the GFS is sniffing out that type of cold, it usually means business. Its not your typical GFS sounding with -12C mid-level and -3 or -4C sfc.

Are you saying this is bad?  why is it a flag?

I think he's saying the models are usually too quick to throw out the cold, so the cold won't be moved out as quickly as the models show. Will will correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's a good sign.

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I think he's saying the models are usually too quick to throw out the cold, so the cold won't be moved out as quickly as the models show. Will will correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's a good sign.

 

 

Yes...and also that the GFS was showing it that cold in the low levels to begin with as the precip was moving in.

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GGEM sort of threads the needle on what it would take to get widespread 8-12" for SNE.

 

The high pressure location on it is really key...it doesn't move east...it actually moves back west over W Quebec/E Ontario which would keep places like BOS frigid.

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I think he's saying the models are usually too quick to throw out the cold, so the cold won't be moved out as quickly as the models show. Will will correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's a good sign.

 

 

Yes...and also that the GFS was showing it that cold in the low levels to begin with as the precip was moving in.got it

got it...so it was a good flag...

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Gfs has been relatively stable past several runs and somewhat more robust tonight but similar track.

Yeah it really didn't change much aloft.  And the UK, as you said earlier, is very similar.  Both add confidence.

 

The spread of the GEFS seemed to increase last cycle, which surprised me a little.  I'll be curious to see if that tightens up a bit tonight.

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00z GFS is a better solution given that the primary 850mb solution dies out over BUF and a new one develops east of Cape Cod, MA so the 850mb only go above 0C southeast of PVD and BOS and really no further mix west of that corridor. We need to watch how the 850mb circulation develops in future runs.

go to Narr and run 12/30/93, look familiar?
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GGEM sort of threads the needle on what it would take to get widespread 8-12" for SNE.

 

The high pressure location on it is really key...it doesn't move east...it actually moves back west over W Quebec/E Ontario which would keep places like BOS frigid.

ggem even looks great for down here in nw jersey

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I finally got to see the GGEM run, its a beast for us, widespread 6"+ for all of SNE, secondary takes off further southwest than the GFS and NAM.  GGEM also has that stream of energy come from the polar disturbance and tries to phase with the southern stream disturbance.  this is key for a strong secondary and then has mood snows afterwards on Monday as the upper level energy comes overhead.

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GGEM sort of threads the needle on what it would take to get widespread 8-12" for SNE.

 

The high pressure location on it is really key...it doesn't move east...it actually moves back west over W Quebec/E Ontario which would keep places like BOS frigid.

Will,  Two questions, with this high stronger will this make the storm further SE like a CT, MA special and not up in the Southern NH area?  The second is should we not wait to see what the Euro shows?  I thought this was the best model out of all of the forcast models?

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If the GFS/Canadian/Ukie models were to be close to verifying, what would i be looking at in the Lynn/Salem area? I work in a supermarket, and even if it's only a moderate storm we will get destroyed, so just curious lol.

 

We always seem to do pretty well here, despite being on the coast.

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Will,  Two questions, with this high stronger will this make the storm further SE like a CT, MA special and not up in the Southern NH area?  The second is should we not wait to see what the Euro shows?  I thought this was the best model out of all of the forcast models?

did you see the map i posted?

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CMC has actually trended SE and weaker the past four runs, much like the rest of the guidance, but it doesn't look like its overamping on underamping the storm at all.  Most consistent model by far w/ this system.

At the surface the CMC is quite a bit stronger with the secondary surface low than the GFS, and stronger than its 12z run.  It's also further east.

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No just did, wow, wonder what the snow ratio would be maybe 6:1?  That would definately give us about the 4-8'.  nice 

6:1?  too low.  the mets have been talking about how good the snow growth zone is so I think it is actually alot better as currently modeled.

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